Burned flipper switch and coil [FIXED... I think]

TCinTEXAS

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If it's not one thing, it's another. I was playing a leisurely game of Time Machine this morning, when I noticed the right flipper seemed weak, and the lane change wasn't working. While I played with it, to be sure it wasn't my imagination, I started smelling something burning, so I powered it off.

This is what I found:

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It looks like the (pardon my layman's terminology) nylon nub that holds open the EOS leaf switch while the flipper is at rest fell off, both switches were closed and it overheated. Alternatively, something happened (a short, failed diode?) to overheat the switches, causing the nylon nub to fall off.

Someone help me with my chicken/egg issue. Obviously, I need to replace the switches. I might need to replace more parts. What should I test to determine the cause and prevent it from melting again, as soon as I install new leaf switches?

Thanks in advance!!!
 

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Are you familiar with reading schematics? If not we can grab the manual and walkthrough it. I would check the associated resistors and transistors on the board for anything that's burnt up or dead. I'd be very cautious about using the flipper until the switch is changed. You don't want to risk any (or possibly further) damage to the board. I had a very similar on a game last year where the flipper switches shorted and luckily it just blew the transistor and resistor.
 
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pretty sure the flippers are on a simple relay - not actually board controlled, although i haven't looked at the schematics which i probably should do before making such bold statements
 
I have the manual; haven't looked, but I'm sure the schematics are included.

I've ordered the parts, and no, I won't be using it until I replace the parts. I have a few days to figure out how to test before reassembling it. Still not sure how to go about it, but hopefully someone will chime in, or I'll figure it out in the schematics.

EDIT: This is a fairly new acquisition for me, so I haven't been through it thoroughly. It occurred to me that before burning up switches and nearly starting a fire inside the machine, a fuse should have blown, perhaps. No? I need to go through the fuses to see that the proper values are inserted.
 
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Almost forgot!!!

Before I noticed the burning smell, it started playing a new sound and flashing "INSTANT INFO" on the display.
 
looking more closely to your posted pics, that red post thing on the flipper crank is what actuates the EOS switch (the EOS switch is the one closest to the flipper coil) and your EOS switch looks OK and so does the coil, from what i can see, possibly your EOS may a bit loose and red thing was not contacting it and opening it correctly, just a wag in case you thinnk thats the problem, other switch appears to have been stuck closed and it is the one that the nylon bit fell off of, i suspect it is for the lane change feature of which i would have to dig deeper to see what it controls and why it burnt ??
 
Does that not require both flippers to be pressed for instant info?

Might check the other?
 
looking more closely to your posted pics, that red post thing on the flipper crank is what actuates the EOS switch (the EOS switch is the one closest to the flipper coil) and your EOS switch looks OK and so does the coil, from what i can see, possibly your EOS may a bit loose and red thing was not contacting it and opening it correctly, just a wag in case you thinnk thats the problem, other switch appears to have been stuck closed and it is the one that the nylon bit fell off of, i suspect it is for the lane change feature of which i would have to dig deeper to see what it controls and why it burnt ??

Right. I believe the triangular nylon nub holds the EOS open until the red crank cap actuates it, opening the other switch. The leaf that holds the nylon nub burned completely off (you can see the twisted metal). Makes me wonder if it shorted against something. It doesn't make sense that a leaf spring would melt off unless something was completing the circuit.

I'm going to try to look at it tomorrow. I expedited the parts, so I should have them in the morning. I'm replacing all of the parts, just to be safe. I'm going to check fuses, voltages, diodes and such using the left (working) flipper as reference.

I'm open to that "I know exactly what that is and here's what you do" comment!!!! :)
 
I'm not familiar with time machine, but it looks high voltage power from the eos switch has come into contact with the lower power lane change switch. This can blow out switch matrix ics on the mpu in a hurry.

It looks like there was a nylon leaf between the two switches to insulate them (you can see the remnant at the back of the lane change switch stack - compare it to the other flipper if it too has lane change). Your eos might not have been opening properly, causing things to heat up, and melting the insulator and the lane change switch stack (the black switch body looks melted).

In addition the ordered replacement parts, I would do this: 1. stop playing the game :) 2. desolder the power wires from that flipper coil and tape them so they cant short against anything. Turn on the game and enter the switch test and make sure this incident didn't blow out your switch matrix.
 
I'm not familiar with time machine, but it looks high voltage power from the eos switch has come into contact with the lower power lane change switch. This can blow out switch matrix ics on the mpu in a hurry.

It looks like there was a nylon leaf between the two switches to insulate them (you can see the remnant at the back of the lane change switch stack - compare it to the other flipper if it too has lane change). Your eos might not have been opening properly, causing things to heat up, and melting the insulator and the lane change switch stack (the black switch body looks melted).

In addition the ordered replacement parts, I would do this: 1. stop playing the game :) 2. desolder the power wires from that flipper coil and tape them so they cant short against anything. Turn on the game and enter the switch test and make sure this incident didn't blow out your switch matrix.

Ok, thanks. I haven't powered it up since this happened. I'll do that tomorrow when I remove the flipper assembly.
 
I'm not familiar with time machine, but it looks high voltage power from the eos switch has come into contact with the lower power lane change switch. This can blow out switch matrix ics on the mpu in a hurry.

It looks like there was a nylon leaf between the two switches to insulate them (you can see the remnant at the back of the lane change switch stack - compare it to the other flipper if it too has lane change). Your eos might not have been opening properly, causing things to heat up, and melting the insulator and the lane change switch stack (the black switch body looks melted).

In addition the ordered replacement parts, I would do this: 1. stop playing the game :) 2. desolder the power wires from that flipper coil and tape them so they cant short against anything. Turn on the game and enter the switch test and make sure this incident didn't blow out your switch matrix.

This is what I was getting at above. I'd be shocked if a transistor wasn't blown out, hopefully he can get lucky and it didn't damage the board. I'm not familiar with this game in particular but we can help find out where to look on the pcb for damage if it's not something the OP is familiar with. After getting home from work and having a chance to look at the pics...is there a plastic zip tie in there too? And is the yellow thing a capacitor that's in the stack? What's going on here lol?
 
This is what I was getting at above. I'd be shocked if a transistor wasn't blown out, hopefully he can get lucky and it didn't damage the board. I'm not familiar with this game in particular but we can help find out where to look on the pcb for damage if it's not something the OP is familiar with. After getting home from work and having a chance to look at the pics...is there a plastic zip tie in there too? And is the yellow thing a capacitor that's in the stack? What's going on here lol?

Yes, it has a capacitor. Both do. Seems to be common on these, from the pictures and videos I've seen.
 
I think I may have figured it out!

I was watching this video:

https://youtu.be/jXedxHDwbjg?t=1h11m11s

It's the same type of flipper with the same capacitor. He has shrink tubing over the capacitor lead, insulating it from the leaf switch. If you look at mine, the shrink tubing is crispy. The leaf with the spacer melted off right there at that point.

I bet you $100 that the damn capacitor lead made contact with the edge of the leaf switch and shorted.

OR NOT... on closer inspection, my capacitor lead doesn't look quite the same as his.
 
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I think I may have figured it out!

I was watching this video:

https://youtu.be/jXedxHDwbjg?t=1h11m11s

It's the same type of flipper with the same capacitor. He has shrink tubing over the capacitor lead, insulating it from the leaf switch. If you look at mine, the shrink tubing is crispy. The leaf with the spacer melted off right there at that point.

I bet you $100 that the damn capacitor lead made contact with the edge of the leaf switch and shorted.

OR NOT... on closer inspection, my capacitor lead doesn't look quite the same as his.

I've just never seen them secured into the stack like that before...interesting...
 
FIXED!!! Sort of...

I ran the switch test after removing the components, and they showed all open and no bad switches. Checked the fuses; all correct. One of the shitty fuse holders snapped when I tried to pinch it closed a bit, so I soldered the fuse in for now. Going to replace all of them; it's a Rottendog power supply, and several are looser than I'd like.

I replaced the switches, coil and capacitor (not sure if I needed all of them, but better safe than sorry), put it all back together, and ran a switch test. Watched the assembly carefully for magic smoke. Kept feeling it to see if it was getting hot. Flipped both flippers for about 5 minutes, with no problem. It get lukewarm when I hold the flipper button for more than about 30 seconds, but I'm fairly certain that's normal.

Played a game, opened it up, nothing going on. Played a couple more games. Everything still seems fine.

I still don't know what the problem was, but I'm guessing something shorted.
 
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UPDATE... DAMMIT

After playing a bit more, I've noticed that the right flipper coil seems to heat up quite a bit on hold.

After holding for several seconds, flipper operation is weak.

The plunger moves freely. The Lane Change switch is open at rest and closing properly when the coil is energized.

I installed everything exactly the way it was before (assuming it was correct). The only difference was the Lane Change/Instant Info switch: The original had 3 solder lugs, so you could jumper the diode between the side lug and one of the switch contacts. This one did not, so I soldered the diode in-line, with the band facing the switch (just like the original).

Tomorrow, I will verify voltage to the coil when energized and at rest, and compare those to the left flipper.

BIGGER UPDATE: Now I'm confused as to which is the EOS and which is the Lane Change switch. I'm going to bed.

Any thoughts?
 
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Well, I couldn't sleep. I was reading on FlipperWinkel's pages, and it said that Data East Laser Wars to Time Machine require dual diode flipper coils. Mine only have one.

I checked the schematics, and they say Time Machine uses a flipper coil 22-750/30-2600 (2 diodes). The ones installed are 23-600/30-2600, single diode.

Could this be my problem? The guy I bought it from said he installed new coils. Did he put in the wrong ones? Could the 1 diode vs 2 diodes be causing my flipper coils to overheat?

Thanks.
 
im surprised you didn't short out the switch matrix with the original problems

from flipperwiki ...


Flipper Coil Gets Very Hot...

On pre-Deger (Time Machine and before) flippers, check the EOS switch to make sure it is adjusted properely (1/8" gap at full flipper extension), and that the contacts are clean and filed. If the coil is getting hot, this means the EOS switch is not opening, or the EOS switch capacitor has shorted on.
 
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