Blown Service Outlet Fuse Trouble

Cpoov

New member
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Location
Burke, Virginia
Hey there!

I'm new to restoration and was looking for a little help. I recently got a Pool Sharks Pin, and it was working fine until I accidentally blew this fuse (See attachment). It is an 8A 32V 313 Fuse. Now I do not get any power at all.

My questions are this:

Where can I buy this fuse? I've looked extensively and can't seem to find it.
I have a Bussan 8A 250V would this be safe to use?
Does blowing this fuse cause any other damage that I will need to fix?

I appreciate any and all help!
 

Attachments

  • Pool Sharks Fuse.jpg
    Pool Sharks Fuse.jpg
    433.2 KB · Views: 19
  • Fuse.jpg
    Fuse.jpg
    211.7 KB · Views: 13
Last edited:
Any of the pinball parts places have it. it's a 1 1/4 inch fuse. Bay Area Amusements, Pinball Life, Marco Specialties.

Auto Parts stores might have it, as well as a well stocked hardware store.

Your Bussan fuse will work fine.

LTG : )
 
Any of the pinball parts places have it. it's a 1 1/4 inch fuse. Bay Area Amusements, Pinball Life, Marco Specialties.

Auto Parts stores might have it, as well as a well stocked hardware store.

Your Bussan fuse will work fine.

LTG : )

So i plugged the Bussan Fuse in and i did not get anything, i am not getting any sign of life. The service outlet itself still works when i plug something into it, but the machine itself has no life still. Any advice on my next troubleshoot step?
 
So i plugged the Bussan Fuse in and i did not get anything, i am not getting any sign of life. The service outlet itself still works when i plug something into it, but the machine itself has no life still. Any advice on my next troubleshoot step?

Just to let you know, that original fuse was the wrong one. A rating of 8 amps was good but, that should NOT have been 32v.

"Rated voltage:
The voltage rating of the fuse must be equal to or, greater than, what would become the open-circuit voltage. For example, a glass tube fuse rated at 32 volts would not reliably interrupt current from a voltage source of 120 or 230V. If a 32V fuse attempts to interrupt the 120 or 230 V source, an arc may result. Plasma inside the glass tube may continue to conduct current until the current diminishes to the point where the plasma becomes a non-conducting gas. Rated voltage should be higher than the maximum voltage source it would have to disconnect."

If you look at the schematics, the service outlet is directly connected to the power plug before the fuse. All that is telling you is that power is getting to the machine. With only a 32v fuse originally installed, you may have caused more problems further up the power circuit.

Now, you need to check the voltages at the power supply board in the back box. It may be as simple as another blown fuse. Check fuses F1- F5 on the power supply board in the back box. Meter your voltages at the test points on the power supply board. Then you can isolate from there.
 
Yeah, you don't want a 32V fuse there.
A genuine Bussmann MDL-8 or Littelfuse 313008 fuse is the proper replacement fuse for this one. These are 250VAC fuses. The one in the photo -- if it really says "313" and "32V" then there's something wrong there... a new 313008 is a 250V fuse!
Or maybe the real old 313's were 32V?

Looking at your photo of inside the filter (pinside) - everything looks intact and quite good shape. The service outlet is tied directly to the incoming AC power -- it isn't fused.
Internal wiring to the filter looks good but make sure no loose wires.
Make sure no bare wire is touching case such as a bit of the MOV's leads (MOV = green disk). Check condition of the MOV while you're at it.

Ken asked if the replacement fuse blew. Sounds like it did. If so - you probably have an issue downstream. From there - things can get ugly real fast. Probably have to resort to pulling plugs and reinstalling one at a time to see which one blows the fuse. Then tracing inward from there.

But first - maybe you can ask your buddy *exactly* which thing he was twiddling with when things went south.
 
Just to let you know, that original fuse was the wrong one. A rating of 8 amps was good but, that should NOT have been 32v.

"Rated voltage:
The voltage rating of the fuse must be equal to or, greater than, what would become the open-circuit voltage. For example, a glass tube fuse rated at 32 volts would not reliably interrupt current from a voltage source of 120 or 230V. If a 32V fuse attempts to interrupt the 120 or 230 V source, an arc may result. Plasma inside the glass tube may continue to conduct current until the current diminishes to the point where the plasma becomes a non-conducting gas. Rated voltage should be higher than the maximum voltage source it would have to disconnect."

If you look at the schematics, the service outlet is directly connected to the power plug before the fuse. All that is telling you is that power is getting to the machine. With only a 32v fuse originally installed, you may have caused more problems further up the power circuit.

Now, you need to check the voltages at the power supply board in the back box. It may be as simple as another blown fuse. Check fuses F1- F5 on the power supply board in the back box. Meter your voltages at the test points on the power supply board. Then you can isolate from there.

I have replaced every fuse in the back board following the manual at this point and still get no power.

My TP Levels are as such:

TP 1: Beeps then goes to OL
TP 2: Has Continuity of 0.07
TP 3: Beeps then goes to OL
TP 4: Nothing, No beep or reading

And i asking my friend last night he said he was actually trying to tighten the fuse holder in the service outlet when it flashed and blew.

I checked the MOV in the service outlet nothing had extending leads or was touching the case.

I have also done tested the fuse in the service outlet after trying to power the machine to see if it blew after wards, and it has not.

I have attached the Diagram and Schematic for you guys for reference.


I just want to thank both of you again for being so helpful, i really appreciate it
 

Attachments

  • Diagram.jpg
    Diagram.jpg
    191.2 KB · Views: 5
  • Schematic.jpg
    Schematic.jpg
    230.6 KB · Views: 7
How are you testing those testpoints in last post -- with a continuity tester? Not what you want here. Only a volt meter will do here.

First Need to see if you have good power into the primary power supply.

Ground the meter black lead (negative end of large 18000uF capacitor).
Measure following AC voltages at fuse F1, Fuse F5 and Fuse F4
Fuse F1 should be about 90VAC (measure both sides of fuse)
Fuses F4 and F5 should be about 10VAC (again, both sides of fuse)
If not present - we need to start working back towards transformer and filter box.

Your other power supply voltages are derived from these.

Once we get power to the board -- do the capacitors on that board look like originals? You may need to recap it. Especially (but not only) C7 and C8.
 
How are you testing those testpoints in last post -- with a continuity tester? Not what you want here. Only a volt meter will do here.

First Need to see if you have good power into the primary power supply.

Ground the meter black lead (negative end of large 18000uF capacitor).
Measure following AC voltages at fuse F1, Fuse F5 and Fuse F4
Fuse F1 should be about 90VAC (measure both sides of fuse)
Fuses F4 and F5 should be about 10VAC (again, both sides of fuse)
If not present - we need to start working back towards transformer and filter box.

Your other power supply voltages are derived from these.

Once we get power to the board -- do the capacitors on that board look like originals? You may need to recap it. Especially (but not only) C7 and C8.


hey there!

sorry for the delay,

i have been on vacation. I am doing voltage testing today, all of the caps look to be original and in good condition nothing looks blown or expanded.
 
Did you ever get this figured out? I came across this thread and was about to jump in with help then saw how long ago it was.
 
Would love help!

No I got backed up at work and such and never did source the problem, please I would love help!
 
No I got backed up at work and such and never did source the problem, please I would love help!

Did you ever use a multi-meter to test the voltages like G-P-E suggested?

How are you testing those testpoints in last post -- with a continuity tester? Not what you want here. Only a volt meter will do here.

First Need to see if you have good power into the primary power supply.

Ground the meter black lead (negative end of large 18000uF capacitor).
Measure following AC voltages at fuse F1, Fuse F5 and Fuse F4
Fuse F1 should be about 90VAC (measure both sides of fuse)
Fuses F4 and F5 should be about 10VAC (again, both sides of fuse)
If not present - we need to start working back towards transformer and filter box.

Your other power supply voltages are derived from these.

Once we get power to the board -- do the capacitors on that board look like originals? You may need to recap it. Especially (but not only) C7 and C8.

Like he said, "Your other power supply voltages are derived from these." Need to know if your at least getting the correct voltages on the input side of the power supply board. If not, then you need to verify if your getting the correct voltages out of the transformer.
Even though electrolytic capacitors "look" good, they dry out internally. More so if the capacitor is under a lot of internal stress, or near other component that produce a lot of heat.
 
Yea, I was just going to suggest a couple things.
1) Not sure if you ever continuity tested the original 8amp fuse. Maybe others can tell but it didn't visually look blown to me. Also wanted to mention you use continuity (Ohm) test for verifying fuses.
2) Also was going to suggest going back one step before G-P-E's suggestion, testing for the AC voltage to the transformer but GPE's test is a bit easier, so doing that first is better. Regardless you need to verify power is getting to the Transformer in the cabinet.
3) This might appear obvious but did you try the power switch?
4)Lastly, attached pic of power wiring from page 108 of schematic diagram on ipdb.org. Shows that service outlet is before fuse, power switch is after, then transformer, the power supply, etc.

If you are not getting any lights or anything, I would guess you have a problem getting power to the transformer.
 

Attachments

  • Capture.JPG
    Capture.JPG
    252.4 KB · Views: 6
Pretty sure it's the transformer

I agree there is 0v on all fuses, how should I go about testing the transformer
 
I agree there is 0v on all fuses, how should I go about testing the transformer

So you took AC power measurement at fuses as GPE suggested?

Transformers rarely go bad. I would check AC power at the power switch. Follow the diagram a few posts above and check AC power along the path. You can disconnect 7p5 I think it was and test at pins 1 and 7 as well.
 
So upon inspection this guy is looking pretty rough. It is the fuse I blew as well and the spot where the pin stops getting voltage. If so where can I buy one??
 

Attachments

  • 15259216892361361372000.jpg
    15259216892361361372000.jpg
    516.8 KB · Views: 12
so if you have one test lead on white wire (on line filter) and the other on black (wire on fuse) you get @120v but when move test leader from black to orange (other side of fuse) you get nothing? correct?

If so, you could have a bad fuse holder. Probably can get them at hardware store or amazon. Also, pull the fuse and check for continuity to rule out another blown fuse.

if you have another blown fuse, you will want something like the below at bob roberts. with one lead on black side of fuse and one on brown or orange till you figure out the short.
http://therealbobroberts.net/cirbreaker.html
 
Back
Top Bottom