My 2 cents:

I don't have a bone to pick on the Mitchell Drama. Honestly, i wouldn't doubt that he cheated. I don't really care about world records for video games.

With that said, i do have a major issue with some of his detractors, especially the so called "Arcade experts". A few of my friends have brought up this in discussion. You have one group of people who simply hate Mitchell because of the way he portrays himself. That really has nothing to do with his hi-score really. If you don't like him, that's fine. I can see where people could dislike him.

The mame theorist pool of people really don't have much to go on tho. mame has changed so much over the years; This includes the DK drivers. In the period since the footage was made, Mame has hit 3 graphics core milestone releases. Anyone that has used mame for any extended period of time will also notice that there are games, even ones with matured drivers will act differently between releases. To make a long story short, the folks claiming he is using mame have either given out vastly vague and even false info. Most importantly none of them can seem to pinpoint which version of mame he was using nor which romset. Not one soul that i have seen speak in depth about Mitchell using mame has even definitively tested mame and a DK romset circa 2004, the year the footage was supposedly taken.

You also have another third fringe e-celeb gamer crew. A prime example of this is a person well known in the hobby that got schooled on the Twin Galaxies live chat a few weeks back. The person in question has a pretty major following as an "Arcade collector" and gamer; Goes to all the cons etc but had no clue about how direct feed works. This person then began asking monitor questions comparing the "Nintendo monitor" as they called it to a G07. As the chat progressed it was clear this person had no clue about the 20EZ, G07 or just how monitors worked in general.
 
It's emulation. It's been proven to be emulation (contrary to Don's opinion of the matter). Cheaters are the lowest form of liars. Billy Mitchell will forever be a taint in my book... not to mention a tainted name...

Based on the past instances, I look forward to Guinesss removing his scores from their records as well.

CHEATERS SUCK! No matter who they are.
 
It's emulation. It's been proven to be emulation (contrary to Don's opinion of the matter).

No it hasn't. They simply proved it wasn't your run of the mill DK board with common romset being used. That's far more than they need to justifyibly ban his scores.

The only mame "test" made was someone posting some vague images with an extremely broad set of mame versions that were claimed to have been tested. One screenshot for 6 years worth of mame versions isn't proof, let alone a test. Testing mame 0.137 which came out in 2008 isn't proof that Mitchell cheated in 2004. Folks, this is just common sense.

And i actually never gave a definitive opinion on the matter but I'll give it now. I don't doubt that Mitchell could have cheated. At this point I'm leaning to him having used a modified bootleg board to get the gameplay and video results he was looking for.
 
No it hasn't. They simply proved it wasn't your run of the mill DK board with common romset being used. That's far more than they need to justifyibly ban his scores.

The only mame "test" made was someone posting some vague images with an extremely broad set of mame versions that were claimed to have been tested. One screenshot for 6 years worth of mame versions isn't proof, let alone a test. Testing mame 0.137 which came out in 2008 isn't proof that Mitchell cheated in 2004. Folks, this is just common sense.

And i actually never gave a definitive opinion on the matter but I'll give it now. I don't doubt that Mitchell could have cheated. At this point I'm leaning to him having used a modified bootleg board to get the gameplay and video results he was looking for.



I'm really not clear on how you can say that. The video analysis showing how the girders are drawn clearly resembles MAME (regardless of the version), more than any possibility of a bootleg.

If you have information/details to the contrary, please be specific.
 
No it hasn't. They simply proved it wasn't your run of the mill DK board with common romset being used. That's far more than they need to justifyibly ban his scores.

The only mame "test" made was someone posting some vague images with an extremely broad set of mame versions that were claimed to have been tested. One screenshot for 6 years worth of mame versions isn't proof, let alone a test. Testing mame 0.137 which came out in 2008 isn't proof that Mitchell cheated in 2004. Folks, this is just common sense.

And i actually never gave a definitive opinion on the matter but I'll give it now. I don't doubt that Mitchell could have cheated. At this point I'm leaning to him having used a modified bootleg board to get the gameplay and video results he was looking for.

Dude. Up to this point, the only thing shown to be capable of showing the transition anomalies in Billy's video, is MAME. And there has been an extensive effort to get any other hardware to show them. MAME is the ONLY THING that can do it up to this point.

If it is possible to make any other hardware behave in this fashion, it is officially on Billy Mitchell to show us the setup he used, and to explain how anyone else can reproduce what he did. Period. At this point, the onus is not on us to take his word for. If he is telling the truth, he should have been able to prove this in about 15 minutes. It's been months. The dude cheated, and he needs to admit it.
 
I don't think there's any doubt the guy can play donkey Kong, but I don't believe he has even broke a million live in front of anyone. He always seems to go out at around 600k-800k at the Kong Off right?

As far as I know, this is correct. And by his own logic, he should be able to "handle the pressure of playing live". Which, of course, isn't always as easy as it sounds.

My 2 cents:

I don't have a bone to pick on the Mitchell Drama. Honestly, i wouldn't doubt that he cheated. I don't really care about world records for video games.

With that said, i do have a major issue with some of his detractors, especially the so called "Arcade experts". A few of my friends have brought up this in discussion. You have one group of people who simply hate Mitchell because of the way he portrays himself. That really has nothing to do with his hi-score really. If you don't like him, that's fine. I can see where people could dislike him.

The mame theorist pool of people really don't have much to go on tho. mame has changed so much over the years; This includes the DK drivers. In the period since the footage was made, Mame has hit 3 graphics core milestone releases. Anyone that has used mame for any extended period of time will also notice that there are games, even ones with matured drivers will act differently between releases. To make a long story short, the folks claiming he is using mame have either given out vastly vague and even false info. Most importantly none of them can seem to pinpoint which version of mame he was using nor which romset. Not one soul that i have seen speak in depth about Mitchell using mame has even definitively tested mame and a DK romset circa 2004, the year the footage was supposedly taken.

You also have another third fringe e-celeb gamer crew. A prime example of this is a person well known in the hobby that got schooled on the Twin Galaxies live chat a few weeks back. The person in question has a pretty major following as an "Arcade collector" and gamer; Goes to all the cons etc but had no clue about how direct feed works. This person then began asking monitor questions comparing the "Nintendo monitor" as they called it to a G07. As the chat progressed it was clear this person had no clue about the 20EZ, G07 or just how monitors worked in general.

I'm not disagreeing with you, and as I was watching the feed, I vaguely recall someone posing those questions. I can't remember who, and I suppose it doesn't matter.

The point of the matter is that either he didn't use an actual DK board, OR it was modified in some way. For the record to hold, those are the requirements: The record be set ON an original unmodified DK board. It doesn't matter WHICH version of MAME, or even if it WAS MAME. It wasn't done on an unmodded DK board. That's all that matters where the record is concerned. Jase made that very clear.

Perhaps it was done on a DK board that was modded for NTSC video output, but that's STILL a modded board. It doesn't matter what the mod is, and we will likely never know the truth.

Twin Galaxies has ruled, and to be honest about it, if Jase is looking to rebuild credibility, he is going about it the right way; Openly, and publicly.
 
I'm really not clear on how you can say that. The video analysis showing how the girders are drawn clearly resembles MAME (regardless of the version), more than any possibility of a bootleg.

What version of mame did they test? Which romset? What hardware? were they using any options like wait for VSync or using the old HWStretch setting (Assuming their build of mame even had it)?

This is all I'm asking and the one person that has posted anything about mame and the Mitchell situation online has posted an assessment so broad that its extremely questionable. That's all I'm saying.
 
The point of the matter is that either he didn't use an actual DK board, OR it was modified in some way. For the record to hold, those are the requirements: The record be set ON an original unmodified DK board. It doesn't matter WHICH version of MAME, or even if it WAS MAME. It wasn't done on an unmodded DK board. That's all that matters where the record is concerned. Jase made that very clear.

Perhaps it was done on a DK board that was modded for NTSC video output, but that's STILL a modded board. It doesn't matter what the mod is, and we will likely never know the truth.

Twin Galaxies has ruled, and to be honest about it, if Jase is looking to rebuild credibility, he is going about it the right way; Openly, and publicly.

I agree 100%. It doesn't matter but with that said, it still doesn't mean it was mame. hence why i still believe there is a distinct possibility that if Mitchell cheated, he could have very well have been using a bootleg board; Giving him not only an easier way to record video but could have very well have given him a gameplay advantage.

I've briefly spoken with Jace Hall in the past back when your typical hipster pink-haired millenial social justice warriors were attacking him on twitter some time ago. Regardless of what they say Jace is a stand up guy IMO. I do believe he did the appropriate thing in this case. There is strong reasonable doubt and he had no choice but to take action.
 
I agree 100%. It doesn't matter but with that said, it still doesn't mean it was mame. hence why i still believe there is a distinct possibility that if Mitchell cheated, he could have very well have been using a bootleg board; Giving him not only an easier way to record video but could have very well have given him a gameplay advantage.

I've briefly spoken with Jace Hall in the past back when your typical hipster pink-haired millenial social justice warriors were attacking him on twitter some time ago. Regardless of what they say Jace is a stand up guy IMO. I do believe he did the appropriate thing in this case. There is strong reasonable doubt and he had no choice but to take action.

First off, thank you for the spelling correction on his name. ;)

Like I said, he really seemed during the live stream to be an honest guy. While I've only recently become aware that he took over TG, he has my support, as he's earned it. I honestly don't know about the attacks you speak of, but then again, I don't really check Twitter very much. I have mine linked to my FB page, just for the sole reason of cross posting for exposure.

Again, it's not really a matter of what Billy used to play on, it wasn't an original unmodded DK board. We could literally go through with testing everything under the sun to find out what he DID play on, but in the end, it won't change anything.

I don't really have anything against Billy as a person, as I have never met him, nor really seen anything about him except what he himself has put out in the press(including KoK)... but one thing I do know is that people tend to behave differently around cameras. He could be a genuinely nice guy in real life, and quietly donate tons of money to help crippled children. I don't know.

I still stand on my assertion that I would like to meet him some day, though it is unlikely. The fact that he is a fellow gamer, and a questionably famous one at that, is basically why. I certainly won't "fawn all over him" or "kiss his ass", but I'd like to evaluate him as a person, in person.
 
What version of mame did they test? Which romset? What hardware? were they using any options like wait for VSync or using the old HWStretch setting (Assuming their build of mame even had it)?

This is all I'm asking and the one person that has posted anything about mame and the Mitchell situation online has posted an assessment so broad that its extremely questionable. That's all I'm saying.



I think it's far less questionable as posing the theoretical possibility that he used a fictitious bootleg board with hypothetical modifications, none of which has been mentioned by Billy, produced by him, or reproduced by anyone in the community that has the technical ability (i.e., what you're proposing is effectively vaporware, and a red herring).

Meanwhile on the other hand, there is strong evidence showing similarities to MAME. The exact version, ROM set, or software video timing options are not going to affect the drawing behavior that has been shown to resemble the behavior on the tape.

There has been data provided demonstrating that MAME can reproduce the behavior in the tape, and zero data presented on the other side, demonstrating any other option that can do the same.

Your reasoning is akin to having video evidence of a specific person committing a crime, and you saying, "Well how do you know that wasn't a dog dressed up to look like that person, and trained to act just like them? Isn't that reasonable doubt?"

No, it isn't.
 
What version of mame did they test? Which romset? What hardware? were they using any options like wait for VSync or using the old HWStretch setting (Assuming their build of mame even had it)?

This is all I'm asking and the one person that has posted anything about mame and the Mitchell situation online has posted an assessment so broad that its extremely questionable. That's all I'm saying.

If you dig into that 300-some page mess of a topic, There was a call to test as many versions of MAME as they could get a hold of from when the tapes were made. That's where they figured out the whole CPU @99% will give the finger girder all the time.
 
Bah, I wait to watch it whenever they make the next movie.
I feel like this is all a big build up for some other kookie pseudo "documentary".
I guess as long as your name and face are catching the eyes and ears of the populace theres no such thing as bad publicity.
(Yawns and moves along).
 
I think it's far less questionable as posing the theoretical possibility that he used a fictitious bootleg board with hypothetical modifications, none of which has been mentioned by Billy, produced by him, or reproduced by anyone in the community that has the technical ability (i.e., what you're proposing is effectively vaporware, and a red herring).

Vague screenshot detailing 6+ years of mame development, most of which was created well past 2004 is just as unlikely. Hence my point.

I'm simply playing devils advocate and i have a strong feeling there are a few here that are getting their feelings hurt because of it. In the end TG already made their ruling based on reasonable doubt not on any confirmation that mame was used. Yet, we still have a tribalist group of internet "Arcade and mame experts" that are still yelling mame even though TG flat out says 2 times in their statement that they couldn't confirm mame was being used.
 
Vague screenshot detailing 6+ years of mame development, most of which was created well past 2004 is just as unlikely. Hence my point.

I'm simply playing devils advocate and i have a strong feeling there are a few here that are getting their feelings hurt because of it. In the end TG already made their ruling based on reasonable doubt not on any confirmation that mame was used. Yet, we still have a tribalist group of internet "Arcade and mame experts" that are still yelling mame even though TG flat out says 2 times in their statement that they couldn't confirm mame was being used.


If you're trying to make the 'we can't 100% prove it's MAME' argument, you can try to argue that logic, but it's disingenuous at best. (And calling it a 'vague screenshot' is as well.)

There is clear frame-by-frame analysis of the video, showing artifacts that have been clearly shown to be duplicated by MAME, and no other option has been shown to be able to produce the same behavior. And it has also been reproduced. That isn't a 'vague screenshot'.

That argument is akin to saying, "Well, we know you also found the suspect's fingerprints and DNA at the scene, but how do you know someone didn't fake his prints and put his DNA there by some means?"

That's really a stretch. It's an empty argument, and still shows no evidence of any other alternate possibility. Doesn't pass the 'reasonable doubt' test, and I don't think anyone is convinced (even Billy and his cronies, honestly, which is why Joel West is deflecting with the whole affadavit/lawsuit tactic, which is equally empty).

Also, TG stating things the way they did is simply a legal/PR tactic, as they are providing only the minimum justification they need to remove his scores, which puts them at the lowest legal and backlash exposure/risk. That's what any smart person in their position would and should do.
 
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Adios cheating scumbag.

Think of all the people that were denied their time in the spotlight because of him

I wouldn't doubt one but that his perfect Pac-Man was faked as well.

For all of you trying to call the investigation into question - it's all been examined and your boy Billy's sychpants we're unable to reproduce the transitions that were on his tapes.

Add that to the fact that they then tried claiming it was a "direct feed" and that's why it didn't have sound(MAME DK had incorrect sounds, gotta hide it) AND the fact that Billy only finally admitted the board swap video was faked when he knew he was busted and you have a busted cheat.

"Hey guys, Donkey Kong career kill screen coming up"
 
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