Best joystick for an Phoenix ArcadeSD board?

Tornadoboy

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Ok, I FINALLY (after months of dicking around with it) got my new cab set up and working for my ArcadeSD board, and found out to no surprise that the joystick I have absolutely SUCKS!!

So my question is, what is the best joystick available for a multi-game board with both 4 and 8-way games, particularly the Phoenix ArcadeSD? Please give best/cheapest available sources.

I realize that the 49-ways probably work pretty damn good but I'm going to use this cab with a multi-JAMMA switcher, so I imagine those won't work with standard boards in that kind of setup.
 
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You can use a rom to map 49-way to whatever. You can also have the arcade sd choose the rom mapping and also allow manual override with a switch for jamma board. I'll likely do this soon and write it up. The rom mapping idea is from Sean Riddle:

http://www.seanriddle.com/49way.html
 
JLW with 4 way restrictor... Then go in and delete all the 8 way games. ;)
 
You can use a rom to map 49-way to whatever. You can also have the arcade sd choose the rom mapping and also allow manual override with a switch for jamma board. I'll likely do this soon and write it up. The rom mapping idea is from Sean Riddle:

http://www.seanriddle.com/49way.html

Awesome! Keep us updated, that'll be extremely useful!
 
If you are only using one joystick, you can wire a midway 49-way directly to the Arcade SD.

Hopefully I'll get the two joystick method working soon. I'll post info here when I do.
 
I'm playing mine in a Class of `81 cabaret cab. I *think* (but I'm not sure) it's just a 4-way joystick...?

Anyhow, purists will probably guffaw - but most of the games on the ArcadeSD play fine for my simple taste. :)
 
If you are only using one joystick, you can wire a midway 49-way directly to the Arcade SD.

Hopefully I'll get the two joystick method working soon. I'll post info here when I do.

The cab is initially going to share a 2-in-1 switcher with an ArcadeSD and Namco Classics 2 board, the later of which uses a standard joystick, and eventually I'll probably spring for a 6-in-1 switcher and share it with more boards. If it wasn't for the other boards I'd just wire the cab up with the 49-way and leave it at that, I imagine there's no better joystick for that board as it maps it itself depending on the game.

I'll have to play around with it a little, I know how to program EPROMs but I don't know if I understand them enough to get it working with just the descriptions SR provides, I may have to hold out for you or somebody to show it in practice.

If I DO get it to work I'll of course discuss it here.
 
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I have a couple of those. Any idea on how they would compare for an ArcadeSD?

Should function just fine. The question is whether you like the feel of those joystick or not. The definitely don't feel like a Wico, but I'll probably be okay with that since the machine with the ArcadeSD in it is kind of a compromise machine anyways for the games that I don't have dedicated machines for.
 
Put a Namco Reunion 4-way and a Wico 8-way side by side that is the only way to fly if you really want to have 4-way and 8-way games on the same machine.

49-way mapping is cool and all but it still isn't a 4-way stick. Something like 15 percent of the possible positions are still pure equal diagonals that the game will have to guess at your intentions with and in a fast game you lose a man every time it guesses wrong.
 
Put a Namco Reunion 4-way and a Wico 8-way side by side that is the only way to fly if you really want to have 4-way and 8-way games on the same machine.

49-way mapping is cool and all but it still isn't a 4-way stick. Something like 15 percent of the possible positions are still pure equal diagonals that the game will have to guess at your intentions with and in a fast game you lose a man every time it guesses wrong.

A 49-way the way I describe before will never send diagonals to the game board in 4-way mode.

If you were going to put a 4-way in, why would you out one in that uses micro switches?
 
It won't send a diagonal perhaps, but 12 of the positions on the 49-way grid are pure diagonals. On the basic diagram below of the possible positions of the 49-way all the "O" positions are equal diagonals.

OXXXXXO
XOXXXOX
XXOXOXX
XXXXXXX
XXOXOXX
XOXXXOX
OXXXXXO

In the "O" positions there is no way to know what the player's intentions are. Somehow, in either hardware or software a choice is being made as to which position is getting sent when the stick is in these positions. The controller cannot read the player's mind and thus can't be any more accurate than a coin flip for those positions and those positions cover 24 percent of the controller range. In the case of Sean Riddle's mapping he is just choosing in advance which way those "O" positions are going to go. Every mapping there is a compromise that either involves large dead zones or heavily favoring certain directions over others.

If you want to extrapolate the math a little further it comes out to the 49-way being 88 percent accurate in 4-way games over the entire range of movement. This is a nice improvement over an 8-way stick which is only 75 percent accurate in 4-way games over the entire range of movement. However it is nowhere near as good as a true 4-way which will be 100 percent accurate. (I did not include the center position in any calculations).

Now players playing 4-way games don't tend to use the entire range of the stick equally and thus perceived accuracy is higher than the accuracy you would get weighting each spot equally.

I suggest the reunion stick because those are easier to come by than original pac sticks and the much smaller base allows them to be matched up with an 8-way wico sharing the same buttons with a minimum of control panel space used. (If you put the reunion stick to the left of the wico then you can actually install them with the bases touching).

A 49-way the way I describe before will never send diagonals to the game board in 4-way mode.

If you were going to put a 4-way in, why would you out one in that uses micro switches?
 
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49 way

So is the main reason we're talking 49 way here that the ArcadeSD auto kills the unneeded directions according to each game? If that's the case the 49 way would seem the obvious choice.

This the one to use?
http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/a219391.htm

And any wiring/adapter needed?

Last question: Will standard red top sticks work on this? :0)
 
So is the main reason we're talking 49 way here that the ArcadeSD auto kills the unneeded directions according to each game? If that's the case the 49 way would seem the obvious choice.

This the one to use?
http://na.suzohapp.com/joysticks/a219391.htm

And any wiring/adapter needed?

Last question: Will standard red top sticks work on this? :0)

Depends on how many joysticks you use. If one, you can wire it straight to the 49-way as in the manual. If two, some extra wiring with a rom for mapping (like Sean Riddle did) needs to happen I'll write up how to do this once i do it. That'll get you auto-selection of 4-way and 8-way mappings for ArcadeSD.
 
great

Ok I am just using 1 stick. Guess time to plunk down a few $$$ on a 49 way.

But again - can you swap in a standard red ball top stick into it?
 
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