Battlezone help...please

mac622

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My upright has been sitting without and video for about 5 years now. When I first got it about a year before then it had some monitor issues so I capped the monitor and HV unit and replaced all the bottle caps. I also checked all the fuses with a DMM, unseated, cleaned and replaced all chips, bought a new interconnect cable from Spaeth, reflowed the solder joints on the monitor and interconnect cable pins and tried as best as possible to clean the pcb edge connectors and at the time this was about the extent of my electronics know how and abilities. After all that game worked fine. As time went on though once in a while the images on the screen would get a little flaky or sometimes go blank completely so I would reach in the coin door and give a shake/wiggle on the boards and connectors and that would solve the issue. This went on for a while and continued to get worse until one day no matter how much jiggling/adjusting the monitor would not come back on.



I would really like to get this up and running again so I've been searching through the archives here trying to figure out what could be the problem but I'm even more confused now after reading all the threads here? To make matters worse my electronics know-how and abilities have not gotten any better and in fact have regressed since I haven't touched any vids in several years. Things like scoping chips and such is way above my pay grade (I think). That all said here is the current state of affairs:



-the game plays blind (it always has)

-the red LEDs are lit on the main, aux and monitor pcb's

-the tube neck glows but no dot in center of screen

-start button LED flashes when powered up

-the two lamps that look like x-mas lights on the monitor pcb are not lit



Here's what I've done recently in my attempt to get the monitor working:



-lifted and reseated any removable chips on the main and aux pcb's again

-metered all fuses in the power block and on the monitor pcb

-cleaned the edge connectors

-tried starting in test mode

-checked several 5V checkpoints on the main and aux boards and they were all good

I did not reflow the header pins as I had done that when I first got the game but will gladly try that again if you think it could help.



Do you know if there is a trouble shooting guide/waterfall that is available to walk the diagnostic steps? Any help/insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
I would order the Braze High score save kit for starters. Hard to tell if your problem is monitor or motherboard but if the game is a keeper for you then get the kit.
 
Sounds like the monitor as it's playing blind

I suggest checking voltages to get better ideas what's going on

Are you comfortable in doing that? (not anything like 110V)

On the AR2 regulator board, you need
  • 5VDC for the PCB - you already checked that, and game board works you said
  • 36VAC on plug J9, between pins 4 and 5
  • +12VDC on plug J10, between pins 5 and 4
  • +22VDC on plug J10, between pins 5 and 1 (Feeds the monitor)
  • -22VDC on plug J10, between pins 5 and 3 (Feeds the monitor)
  • -5VDC on plug J10, between pins 5 and 9

Check that and let us know the actual readings


Pin numbers here (same type - different machine)

LAI_power_supply_Plug_Numbers.jpg


All the best :)
 
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You mentioned edge connectors being a past issue; swapping those is a major hassle, try this:

Typical AMP brand edge connectors lose their pin contact pressure towards the center over time due to the plastic deforming from the constant pressure of the pins pushing it outward.

Since the voltages are usually present towards the ends of those connectors, the boards appear to work and play blind and you can pull your hair out searching for a solution- here it is.

Remove the edge connector and apply a clamp that can take heat, usually a pair of large Vice Grips works fine. You may want to add something under the jaws to spread the load, a couple of large washers or even a pair of old keys will work. The idea is to apply pressure along the middle of the empty edge connector, not too hard but enough to begin moving the two sides closer together.

Then take a heat gun and warm the connector until the plastic relaxes and the two sides move towards each other. You don't want to melt it, just soften it so it takes on a new narrower form.

Let it cool and when you reinstall it on the board, it should be much tighter and hopefully your video problems will be gone for the next 25 to 30 yrs.
 
Okay, I believe I've metered these correctly but please let me know if I didn't. I pulled the j10 plug off the ARII board an then metered the corresponding pins below in the jack on the board (and not the plug) correct? Here are the J10 readings:

12.11v (+12VDC on plug J10, between pins 5 and 4)
23.05v (+22VDC on plug J10, between pins 5 and 1)
-22.52 (-22VDC on plug J10, between pins 5 and 3)
-5.14 (-5VDC on plug J10, between pins 5 and 9)

I'm confused about the 36VAC on plug J6, between pins 4 and 5 though. My schematic states J6/J6Pis a 10.6VDC connection and not 32VAC? Did you mean J9/P9 (see pics)? I tried metering for AC on the pins in the jack end of J9 on the ARII board but got nothing. I then metered the pins in the plug end of P9 and got 1.41VAC on pin 4 and 2.15VAC on pin 5 (with the DMM ground connected to pin 2 in P. Am I doing something wrong or is this the results we are looking for?

Also, it looks like a resistor or diode was burnt off the ARII board next J6 (see pic). I'm pretty sure it has been this way the whole time even when the game was working but I could easily be wrong. Is this normal?

Thanks for you help and please let me know what I should do or test next.
 

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Also, it looks like a resistor or diode was burnt off the ARII board next J6 (see pic). I'm pretty sure it has been this way the whole time even when the game was working but I could easily be wrong. Is this normal?

Thanks for you help and please let me know what I should do or test next.

That's R30, it's the 10 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor used in the sense circuit

Read this write up here, and decide what to believe
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1567536 (By bit slicer)

From here, Either way, replace your edge connector on the PCB, and do the sense mod if you wish

No need to replace the resistor if you do the sense mod
 
You mentioned edge connectors being a past issue; swapping those is a major hassle, try this:

Typical AMP brand edge connectors lose their pin contact pressure towards the center over time due to the plastic deforming from the constant pressure of the pins pushing it outward.

Since the voltages are usually present towards the ends of those connectors, the boards appear to work and play blind and you can pull your hair out searching for a solution- here it is.

Remove the edge connector and apply a clamp that can take heat, usually a pair of large Vice Grips works fine. You may want to add something under the jaws to spread the load, a couple of large washers or even a pair of old keys will work. The idea is to apply pressure along the middle of the empty edge connector, not too hard but enough to begin moving the two sides closer together.

Then take a heat gun and warm the connector until the plastic relaxes and the two sides move towards each other. You don't want to melt it, just soften it so it takes on a new narrower form.

Let it cool and when you reinstall it on the board, it should be much tighter and hopefully your video problems will be gone for the next 25 to 30 yrs.

Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, I must have heated them too much because the connectors shrank and no longer fit on the edge of the board! I would try heating them again and try to strectch them longer but I think that will be like pi$$ing in the wind at this point.
 
That's R30, it's the 10 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor used in the sense circuit

Read this write up here, and decide what to believe
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1567536 (By bit slicer)

From here, Either way, replace your edge connector on the PCB, and do the sense mod if you wish

No need to replace the resistor if you do the sense mod

Okay - I going to replace the connectors because I shrunk mine them when attempting Mike Doyle's mod of heating them up to get the pins closer together. This was totally my fault as i put too much pressure on them. My first thought would be to order these from Bob Roberts but in my searching through the BZ threads I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that his connectors aren't that good for this application. Is that true? If so, any suggestions on where to 12/24 connectors?

I'm still curious about the readings I got on J9/P9. Was this normal or is this something that should be rectified with changing the edge connectors? Or is it a separate problem all together?

I've read the sense mod thread but I don't quite understand it. I'll give it another read tomorrow when I'm "fresh" and hopefully it will click.

Thanks again guys for the help!
 
Okay - I going to replace the connectors because I shrunk mine them when attempting Mike Doyle's mod of heating them up to get the pins closer together. This was totally my fault as i put too much pressure on them. My first thought would be to order these from Bob Roberts but in my searching through the BZ threads I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that his connectors aren't that good for this application. Is that true? If so, any suggestions on where to 12/24 connectors?

I'm still curious about the readings I got on J9/P9. Was this normal or is this something that should be rectified with changing the edge connectors? Or is it a separate problem all together?

I've read the sense mod thread but I don't quite understand it. I'll give it another read tomorrow when I'm "fresh" and hopefully it will click.

Thanks again guys for the help!

The sense circuit was never intended for 30 years down the track, it slightly cranks the voltage when small resistances develop on the edge connector.

If large resistances develop, a suicidal cranking of the voltage occurs trying to keep the voltage on the PCb at 5V

The poor old AR1 or 2 has to give, and it's usually that little resistor that gets fried
 
That's R30, it's the 10 ohm, 1/2 watt resistor used in the sense circuit

Read this write up here, and decide what to believe
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1567536 (By bit slicer)

From here, Either way, replace your edge connector on the PCB, and do the sense mod if you wish

No need to replace the resistor if you do the sense mod

Okay, I have the two molex connectors on their way from Bob Roberts so hopefully they'll be here in time for the weekend. Interesting side note on the order - Bob questioned there being two 22/44 connectors on a Battlezone. Mine definitely has two - do you guys have two as well?

I re-read the sense mod thread and I think I'm going to leave it be. Interestingly enough when I removed the ARII from the cab last night I noticed they installed the R30 on the back of the board so the sense circuit is still in tact. Looks like R29 was replaced as well.

I tried metering for AC on the pins in the jack end of J9 on the ARII board but got nothing. I then metered the pins in the plug end of P9 and got 1.41VAC on pin 4 and 2.15VAC on pin 5 (with the DMM ground connected to pin 2 in P. Am I doing something wrong or is this the results we are looking for?

I would still like to hear your thoughts on my readings at J9/P9. I don't believe this was addressed and want to make this isn't a potential issue that is being overlooked.

Thanks
 
You mentioned edge connectors being a past issue; swapping those is a major hassle, try this:

Typical AMP brand edge connectors lose their pin contact pressure towards the center over time due to the plastic deforming from the constant pressure of the pins pushing it outward.

Since the voltages are usually present towards the ends of those connectors, the boards appear to work and play blind and you can pull your hair out searching for a solution- here it is.

Remove the edge connector and apply a clamp that can take heat, usually a pair of large Vice Grips works fine. You may want to add something under the jaws to spread the load, a couple of large washers or even a pair of old keys will work. The idea is to apply pressure along the middle of the empty edge connector, not too hard but enough to begin moving the two sides closer together.

Then take a heat gun and warm the connector until the plastic relaxes and the two sides move towards each other. You don't want to melt it, just soften it so it takes on a new narrower form.

Let it cool and when you reinstall it on the board, it should be much tighter and hopefully your video problems will be gone for the next 25 to 30 yrs.


I would think this would be more of a last resort. Unless I missed it, he hadn't even mentioned checking any voltages or re-flowing solder on the AR-II header pins.

Edit, ok, i see where he tested the +5 but still, I have never had to do anything like this to fix an Atari.
 
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Melting the connector totally ignores the chances of cracked or burned pins.

Yes, there are two connectors on a Battlezone, one on the main board and one on the aux board.
 
Melting the connector totally ignores the chances of cracked or burned pins.

Yes, there are two connectors on a Battlezone, one on the main board and one on the aux board.

I did reflow the header pins on the main and aux boards several years ago but will do it again just to be on the safe side. I hand't previously re-flowed anything on the ARII but will do it this time around.



Talon2000 - sorry for the newb/dumb question but where and how do I meter the x y outputs?
 
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