Battery leak, why do we fight acid with acid ?

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Just thought about this:

Assuming the dirty stuff that leaks out of an (old) battery is an acid, why do we actually fight it with another acid (vinegar) ?

Normally, an acid is neutralized using a base instead of an acid.

At least, that's what I remember from my chemistry lessons LONG LONG time ago.....
 
Ah, I actually found the answer on the forum here :)

Battery "acid" is really no acid but an alkali base !

So, indeed we fight the base with acid in this case.

Now, do I need to mix the vinegar with some water f.i. ? I've so far used pure "white" vinegar (we call it "cleaning" vinegar, the kind you don't put on your salad).

Do I have to use de-mineralised water to rinse after the "process" has finished ?

I rinsed with tap water (our water is very clean, drinkable and de-hardened) but I've got what looks like chalk spots around the parts legs.
 
Wash, rinse, and repeat....

Ahhhh, Who could forget the famous words of Kelly Bundy.

Use 50/50 mix of water and white vinegar. Rinse with tap water. Make sure to pull all chips. I will run my pin boards in the dishwasher after hand washing. This will insure that the corrosion on the traces that are hidden under the insulation and seats is addressed.

GL,
R
 
Now, do I need to mix the vinegar with some water f.i. ? I've so far used pure "white" vinegar (we call it "cleaning" vinegar, the kind you don't put on your salad).

Out of all the wonderful vinegars to put on your salad you pick that one?

At least it's getting good use cleaning boards.
 
Yesterday I was working on another Berzerk ZPU. I didn't trust a trace that was right under one of the white screening lines (the "boxes" that Stern drew around certain areas on the PCBs.) I scraped off the green cover and the white line and the track under it was FULL of the bad-blue-base stuff !

The real shitty thing is that this board was working but stopped right after I scraped off all the covering of bad looking areas...I had already bridged two tracks because of bad spots and it was working after that....

LED goes on and stays on now while it was working 100% before....

Must have damaged a track in some way.....will look into it tonight...
 
Off topic, but o well I started this thread anyway.

Turned out I hadn't damaged any tracks but the reset button was giving Ohms values....
My bet is that there's still water inside it now because of the rinsing. Impossible to reach inside it so I desoldered it and now the PCB works 100% again...
 
That's why I like my gas oven at 170 degrees F - the lowest setting.

It dries out all the water and comes out toasty after 15 minutes.
 
That's why I like my gas oven at 170 degrees F - the lowest setting.

It dries out all the water and comes out toasty after 15 minutes.

Your wife/gf/so's old hair dryer works as well. If you don't have a couple spare ones around, you obviously haven't had a wife/gf/so long enough. :)

ken
 
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I thought you were supposed to use baking soda solution (base) to combat acid damage?
 
I thought you were supposed to use baking soda solution (base) to combat acid damage?

You are not combating damage. You are neutralizing the offending substance so that it does not continue to cause damage. In the case of batteries, they have been using alkaline solutions inside the batteries since the 70s. The old carbon-zinc batteries which did use acid went away practically overnight with the development of alkaline batteries. So despite people calling it battery acid damage it is really battery alkali damage and the latest batteries contain minute traces of lithium which attacks the copper traces very aggressively.

ken
 
But lithium batteries seem to very rarely leak ? I just read about someone who wanted to replace one of them on a Suicide board....17 years old and still at 2.7Volts and no leak...
 
It depends of the architecture of the battery. The small lithium button cells will very very rarely leak. Some of the solder-in lithium cell batteries (used in computers) also rarely leak. But the cheap AA batteries are very prone to leaking. Especially the older one. The newer ones (last couple of years) seem to be much better, but we will see when their shelf life begins to expire. That is the problem with most of them is that they self discharge and either gasses build up inside or in some formulations the products of the reaction that creates the electricity take up more volume that the source chemicals, so that if the container can't stand the pressure, it will rupture and spew the contents all over your nice PCB.

ken
 
Crap. I used baking soda to neutralize my spyhunter and just looking at it I can see it didn't. The trace is caked in acidy powdery green. At least all the pins on the connectors are still looking good. I just naturally thought a base was needed to neutralize the battery acid. I wish I knew about this site 4 months ago.
 
Instead of starting a new thread for a simple battery question I figured it would be appropriate to add it to this post. I have a watch where the Lithium button cell battery leaked a little and slightly corded a few contacts do I use the same 50/50 vinegar water method to neutralize the Lithium battery acid or do I have to do something different?
 
You would use the same mix, just apply it sparingly. If you get it down into the watch it may be difficult to get the watch dry and when you power it up, it can cause problems.

Without knowing the exact watch type, it is difficult to give exact advise, but I would try using a q-tip dipped in the vinager solution. Then use a second q-tip dipped in distilled water to clean it. I am not sure what is small enough to work as a contact cleaner.

ken
 
But the cheap AA batteries are very prone to leaking. Especially the older one. The newer ones (last couple of years) seem to be much better, but we will see when their shelf life begins to expire.

Just a helpful FYI:

Ray-O-Vac Alkalaine batteries are the WORST POS AA batteries (and C, D, AAA) that you can buy. Do NOT put these in ANY of your game equipment -- even if off the main board on an isolated plastic holder.

These batteries, even stored around 60 degres, seem to begin leaking about 1-2 years before their expiration date even without being used.

I've purchased numerous batteries from all the major manufacturers (Panasonic, Energizer, Duracel, RayOVac), plus store brand ones (NorthTech, AC Delco) and within a year of expiration about 20% of the RayOVac ones have begun leaking, and by their expiration date, about 40% are leaking.

I rarely ever have a good brand (Panasonic/Energizer/Duracell) leak, and if they do, it's 5-10 years after their expiration date.

The leaking can either be outright clear goo, or a white crystal structure expanding the side and base of the battery.


I've ruined a few remote controls and kid's toys with these and will never buy them again. Most were purchased cheap or free after rebate from Menards up here in the midwest over the course of the last 10 years. Even their store brand NorthTech ones hold up about 4 times as well (one fourth the number of leaks by the expiration date).
 
You would use the same mix, just apply it sparingly. If you get it down into the watch it may be difficult to get the watch dry and when you power it up, it can cause problems.

Without knowing the exact watch type, it is difficult to give exact advise, but I would try using a q-tip dipped in the vinager solution. Then use a second q-tip dipped in distilled water to clean it. I am not sure what is small enough to work as a contact cleaner.

ken

It's an old Seiko 0634-5019 I found the directions last night for servicing the watch. Thanks for the advice I guess I will use a q-tip lightly soaked in the solution the last thing I want is the mixture leaking in the watch.
 
Just a helpful FYI:

Ray-O-Vac Alkalaine batteries are the WORST POS AA batteries (and C, D, AAA) that you can buy. Do NOT put these in ANY of your game equipment -- even if off the main board on an isolated plastic holder.

These batteries, even stored around 60 degres, seem to begin leaking about 1-2 years before their expiration date even without being used.

You actually got 1 to 2 years out of a Rayovac? Apparently you were lucky. I installed some in a flashlight last month - they lasted two weeks before they started leaking.

Ed
 
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