Bally Solenoid Driver/Voltage Regulator Board Issue

dieseldogpi

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Bally Solenoid Driver/Voltage Regulator Board Issue

Question, I have a Mr and Mrs. Pacman that I am rebuilding. The MPU board boots fine, when the Voltage Regulator/Solenoid Driver Board is connected completley, the game will lock up. With only connector J3 plugged into the Solenoid board, the game boots fine. When testing the test points as per pinrepair, test point 4, which is supposed to be +230v, is reading +240v, all other test points are right on. Could this be causing an issue? Or would the lock up be caused by some of the other components? Thanks guys.
 
No, the 230 vs 240 thing is a non-issue.

The J3 connector receives three levels of power from the power supply through J3, including 12V (sol drv steps this down 5V), 240 V (sol drv regulates and filters this to 190 V for displays), and 43V (which goes through the relay to power flippers, and is available for solenoid power).

J1, J2 and J5 are all outputs for solenoids at various locations.

J4 is digital data input from the MPU to drive the logic/predrivers/darlingtons to power all the solenoids.

Do this.

1) Connect J3 and J1. See if it boots.
2) Add J2. see if it boots.
3) Add J4. see if it boots.
4) Add J5. See if it boots.

Basically, determine WHICH CONNECTOR is giving you the non-boot, and get back to me - we can go from there.

Chris
 
Awesome, thanks for the help Chris.
Just to be totally clear, its not that the game wont boot, because it will, even with all the plugs in the solenoid board, it will do the 7 led blinks on the MPU then stay a steady low lit green. Most of the game is apart, I do not have the lamp or sound boards plugged in. Now with only J3 plugged in, this will stay this way forever. The low lit LED stays on, and I'm guessing this means it is in attract mode. The score displays do stuff, etc.
With all the plugs plugged in, it boots, goes into attract mode (I think), and will stay there for maybe 25 seconds, then the score displays go blank and the LED is off.
So i tried J3 and J1, still an issue, MPU booted, then shortly after the LED was off. Tried J3 and J2 (no J1), that worked, did not turn off. I then tried both J3, J2, and J4, which the MPU booted then shortly after turned off, and the same for J3, J2, and J5.
So, unless they all need to be connected or them to work, I guess J1, J4 and J5 are my problems.
I did just replace the 2 big caps on the board, but the board was doing this before that.
I definitely have a bad feeling about this.
Either way...thanks so much for the help.
-Scott
 
The "low lit LED" is good after seven flashes, yes, this indicates the MPU bootup sequence is complete and the game should be in attract mode with displays and playfield lights active.

Why the game would stay lit for 25 seconds and go off is very strange. I cannot immediately surmise what might be the issue, but if you end up needing board help in the long run, I hav efactory testers and have repaired hundreds of boards, please feel free to ask.

In the meantime, keep me informed of what you find. Good luck!

Chris
 
could it be bad coils? or a short in the coil wiring? I dont know what the next step should be. Should I replace all of the components....like a complete rebuild. I have the transistors. Or is there a better way to test?
 
That machine is INFAMOUS for having crappy molex connectors and flakey header pins.
Seriously, buy all brand new molex connectors and header pins.
Also pull your chips and verify you don't have some leg rott going on. Much like it's parents, those are infamous for having shitty quality sockets as well.
By performing the listed items, she should be bullet proof.

You could start by reflowing the header pins as a poor mans fix though :)
 
could it be bad coils? or a short in the coil wiring? I dont know what the next step should be. Should I replace all of the components....like a complete rebuild. I have the transistors. Or is there a better way to test?

DON'T spend time repopulating a board randomly. Thta's $ and tiome you'll waste. As the last poster suggested, connectors DO make a difference though I disagree that it has all bad pins.....I've had too much history with these games and changed too few pins to agree with that.

DEFINITELY reflow your connector pins on the back of your board. I am sending you a PM as well.

Chris
 
Awesome, thanks for the help Chris.
Just to be totally clear, its not that the game wont boot, because it will, even with all the plugs in the solenoid board, it will do the 7 led blinks on the MPU then stay a steady low lit green. Most of the game is apart, I do not have the lamp or sound boards plugged in. Now with only J3 plugged in, this will stay this way forever. The low lit LED stays on, and I'm guessing this means it is in attract mode. The score displays do stuff, etc.
With all the plugs plugged in, it boots, goes into attract mode (I think), and will stay there for maybe 25 seconds, then the score displays go blank and the LED is off.
So i tried J3 and J1, still an issue, MPU booted, then shortly after the LED was off. Tried J3 and J2 (no J1), that worked, did not turn off. I then tried both J3, J2, and J4, which the MPU booted then shortly after turned off, and the same for J3, J2, and J5.
So, unless they all need to be connected or them to work, I guess J1, J4 and J5 are my problems.
I did just replace the 2 big caps on the board, but the board was doing this before that.
I definitely have a bad feeling about this.
Either way...thanks so much for the help.
-Scott

The first thing I would do is figure out why the MPU is "turning off". Is it locking up or is it losing power. Those are two totally different problems with potentially the same symptoms.

I would take a close look at the +5V regulator on the regulator/driver board. That's even more likely to have bad solder than the headers. I would also put a meter on the +5V (I would use an analog meter) and see if it dips or drops out when problem occurs.

You don't seem to be getting consistent results with the connectors connected or disconnected so that's probably not going to help. At one point you said it booted fine with only J1 on the regulator/driver board disconnected? Does it do that consistently? I'm guessing not. If it does then your problem is isolated to some solenoid driver circuits but it seems unlikely that would cause the MPU to lock up.
 
Agreed. Have seen 5V regulators that "test fine" until they are under load, then they sag. I have never seen a 5V regulator with bad solder joints, it's a TO-3 LM3232K with only two soldered pin connections to the board, and the case is connected through the screws that hold the regulator to the heatsink.

I do think the regulator has potential issues.

Chris
 
The first thing I would do is figure out why the MPU is "turning off". Is it locking up or is it losing power. Those are two totally different problems with potentially the same symptoms.

I would take a close look at the +5V regulator on the regulator/driver board. That's even more likely to have bad solder than the headers. I would also put a meter on the +5V (I would use an analog meter) and see if it dips or drops out when problem occurs.

You don't seem to be getting consistent results with the connectors connected or disconnected so that's probably not going to help. At one point you said it booted fine with only J1 on the regulator/driver board disconnected? Does it do that consistently? I'm guessing not. If it does then your problem is isolated to some solenoid driver circuits but it seems unlikely that would cause the MPU to lock up.

It consistently boots fine, goes through all 7 blinks and dims to show it is running. Works every time. And if ONLY J3 is plugged in, it stays running indefinitely. With J3 and J2 it also ran fine. It was the other plugs that caused the issue.

All of the test points were very solid voltages...no fluctuations, but I did not hold the meter there until the MPU dropped off, so I will try that as well.
 
I have seen tons of regulators with bad solder joints.

I've also seen flaky regulators. The cure is replacement with a brand new one.
 
Agreed. Have seen 5V regulators that "test fine" until they are under load, then they sag.

Pretty common. Shit's old.

I have never seen a 5V regulator with bad solder joints, it's a TO-3 LM3232K with only two soldered pin connections to the board, and the case is connected through the screws that hold the regulator to the heatsink.

I've seen it several times. Once on a Stern Meteor which acted exactly like this game. The most common thing is the screw connecting the case of the regulator to the trace on the board gets loose. I always check that. Some are soldered, some are not. This is arguably one of the most important connections in the game and it's prone to failure, yet you don't see it mentioned often. I also had a Trident that acted like this which turned out to be a bad solder joint at a bridge on the recrifier board. Point is, break down the problem and solve it. Not rocket science, just pinball :)

I do think the regulator has potential issues.

Chris

uh huh
 
It consistently boots fine, goes through all 7 blinks and dims to show it is running. Works every time. And if ONLY J3 is plugged in, it stays running indefinitely. With J3 and J2 it also ran fine. It was the other plugs that caused the issue.

All of the test points were very solid voltages...no fluctuations, but I did not hold the meter there until the MPU dropped off, so I will try that as well.

My answer may sound some what extreme/excessive, I've personally found that age is taking it's toll on these machines and the headers and connectors are simply becoming fried/weak. Since you have to place an order anyway plus you'll have to take the boards out why not just spend a few extra bucks and a little extra time and do it right the first time.
I don't discredit Ken or Lindseys answer - just stating that I feel it's time and money well spent to do it right the first time as these are known failure points on all pins.

Either way good luck with your repair!
 
It consistently boots fine, goes through all 7 blinks and dims to show it is running. Works every time. And if ONLY J3 is plugged in, it stays running indefinitely. With J3 and J2 it also ran fine. It was the other plugs that caused the issue.

I would try with only J3 and J4. If it has the problem in that configuration but boots fine with only J3 I suspect that the MPU is locking up due to either a bad decoder on the regulator/driver board, a bad PIA on the MPU or a wiring issue.

All of the test points were very solid voltages...no fluctuations, but I did not hold the meter there until the MPU dropped off, so I will try that as well.

You already know that the voltages will be good when the game is running fine. It's when it has the problem that you want to see what key voltages are doing (specifically +5V).
 
My answer may sound some what extreme/excessive, I've personally found that age is taking it's toll on these machines and the headers and connectors are simply becoming fried/weak. Since you have to place an order anyway plus you'll have to take the boards out why not just spend a few extra bucks and a little extra time and do it right the first time.
I don't discredit Ken or Lindseys answer - just stating that I feel it's time and money well spent to do it right the first time as these are known failure points on all pins.

Either way good luck with your repair!

What connectors should he replace? There are plenty that likely DON'T need to be replaced. Why should he replace those specific connectors? How do you think that will solve this problem? No one said to not do preventative maintenance work on the game. I think we can all agree that's necessary. There is a difference between troubleshooting/repair and preventative maintenance. Keeping that in mind can save all kinds of aggravation. What we're doing here is trying to repair a problem with the game. Then he can do all the preventative maintenance work necessary and know exactly what he's doing and why.

That's just my approach. Fix the problems THEN the potential problems. My version of doing it right the first time. I don't expect everyone to agree.
 
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Wow, a lot of responses. I will see how it boots tonight with only J3 and J4....I hope for no problems with those. I really don't want to deal with an MPU problem. I will also check for constant voltages when the issue occurs. Hope to get to this tonight. Thanks for all the responses
 
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Agreed. Have seen 5V regulators that "test fine" until they are under load, then they sag. I have never seen a 5V regulator with bad solder joints, it's a TO-3 LM3232K with only two soldered pin connections to the board, and the case is connected through the screws that hold the regulator to the heatsink.

I do think the regulator has potential issues.

Chris

To add to this - it very well could be due to dried out or lack of heatsink grease between the LM323K and the heatsink. When the LM323K exceeds a certain temperature, it will shut itself down as you describe. A little dab of heatsink grease might be all you need here.

Ed
 
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