Lindsey
Well-known member
If we would have had decent voltage readings from the beginning we could have solved it on the first page
You could try re-seating or swapping the PIAs. 3 flashes would indicate a PIA or socket problem (most likely).
Bally Rapid Fire pinball help
- Thread starter Zinfer
- Start date
If we would have had decent voltage readings from the beginning we could have solved it on the first page
You could try re-seating or swapping the PIAs. 3 flashes would indicate a PIA or socket problem (most likely).
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Yea, don't ask me to explain that one. I'll try swapping those PIA's now.
Lindsey
Well-known member
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Ok, I swapped the PIA's. I still got the same results. Blinks 3 times then resets, sounds are kind of going crazy and the score displays blink on reset. I pulled the MPU back to the bench and ran a check on it with the +12, +5 and GND.
Getting full 6 flashes on the bench, but in the cabinet 3 then reset.
I checked voltages on the MPU while in cabinet.
TP1 - 4.79
TP2 - 10.22
TP3 - 22
TP4 - GND
TP5 - 4.79
Is it possible for the 5101 (Cmos Ram) or 6810 (Static Ram) to fail producing this result? Just not sure what happened here. All voltages at the MPU appear good. Maybe an Eprom failure?
Wierd because I get good 6 flashes on the bench but 3 in the cabinet.
If it were a bad PIA socket wouldn't I get the same results on the bench?
Only thing I can think is a bad PIA socket, and that would be the first PIA it begins to check.
It acts like it's teasing me. Letting me play for like 10 seconds, then reset. Then play a bit more, then reset, then dead.
Getting full 6 flashes on the bench, but in the cabinet 3 then reset.
I checked voltages on the MPU while in cabinet.
TP1 - 4.79
TP2 - 10.22
TP3 - 22
TP4 - GND
TP5 - 4.79
Is it possible for the 5101 (Cmos Ram) or 6810 (Static Ram) to fail producing this result? Just not sure what happened here. All voltages at the MPU appear good. Maybe an Eprom failure?
Wierd because I get good 6 flashes on the bench but 3 in the cabinet.
If it were a bad PIA socket wouldn't I get the same results on the bench?
Only thing I can think is a bad PIA socket, and that would be the first PIA it begins to check.
It acts like it's teasing me. Letting me play for like 10 seconds, then reset. Then play a bit more, then reset, then dead.
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Lindsey
Well-known member
See what happens in the game with only J4 installed. Could be a bad display causing it to not boot.
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Way ahead of you this time
I disconnected all but J4. I then powered on. On the 5th flash it would electrically snap the 48vdc Relay on the solonoid driver and reset.
Left me scratching my head.
I disconnected all but J4. I then powered on. On the 5th flash it would electrically snap the 48vdc Relay on the solonoid driver and reset.
Left me scratching my head.
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Well this is a revolting development. Seems after the last problem was fixed it reset the chessboard with an entirely new problem.
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Well I screwed around with this contraption some more tonight. I actually mounted the board to the backbox thinking that there must be a purpose for the board needing a ground to cabinet. When I did so, the game instantly came to life again.
Occasionally it still misses reset in which I power down and up again and it catches it. I have some parts on their way here that hopefully will fix this. I did take a short video of it and posted it to youtube.
Now the cabinet has chosen to move on to another problem. The cannon has stopped shooting balls. I still have the sound effect as I pull the trigger but the cannon is not launching anything.
I'm curious where to look for this issue. I'll break out the manual again and see about looking up a wiki file on it. But if anyone might know what would cause the cannon to not fire any longer please share.
Also, does anyone know if the fan was originally that LOUD? I'm thinking it should be quieter.
Occasionally it still misses reset in which I power down and up again and it catches it. I have some parts on their way here that hopefully will fix this. I did take a short video of it and posted it to youtube.
Now the cabinet has chosen to move on to another problem. The cannon has stopped shooting balls. I still have the sound effect as I pull the trigger but the cannon is not launching anything.
I'm curious where to look for this issue. I'll break out the manual again and see about looking up a wiki file on it. But if anyone might know what would cause the cannon to not fire any longer please share.
Also, does anyone know if the fan was originally that LOUD? I'm thinking it should be quieter.
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Not sure about Rapid Fire, but the fan on my Hyperball is really quite loud. I think they might have ised the same fan setups, but not sure. Does it look like this?
You can hear it in this vid too (glass is on the machine, and coin door is closed)
It is quite loud.
Chris
Lindsey
Well-known member
That is an extremely common problem. The reset is just too short when the power supply gets a bit old and tired. You can solve that problem with a DS1811 reset conversion. It will boot reliably after that (as far as reset goes).
A full reset rebuild will help too (I think you ordered that) but the DS1811 is better and a lot easier to install.
HAHA! Awesome.
Not totally sure (have not worked a lot on that specific game but own 2 of them
) but I would guess that there will be 2 main components involved in shooting balls. The feeder motor that lifts the balls and a huge solenoid that fires them. The first step would be to figure out which one is causing the issue. The fact that you get the sound effect tells me that the switch is working. Both components are likely driven by relays that are powered by standard solenoid outputs. Once you have some more detail I can probably be of more help. Depends. If it's moving air noise then it's normal. If it's sound coming out of the bearings in the fan or something then it's not normal. You could try spinning it by hand. It should spin freely. If the bearings are worn that could cause noise.
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Well we'll see what the corrosion reset rebuild does first.
Not totally sure (have not worked a lot on that specific game but own 2 of them
Yea, the agitator is definitely running, and there are like 10 balls loaded. So there's no shortage of balls to fire. It's the huge solonoid that's actually part of the cannon. I am really hoping it's not that big expensive looking relay on the solonoid driver board. I took some measurements on the CR1-3 diodes at the Ball delivery sensor and motor control pcb. They all seem to be working fine. But there seems to be a main 2 pin power plug that comes off the big solonoid. I'm going to take a few measurements there yet. So wierd how the problems keep moving from point to point.
I've also found a bulb that refuses to light even after changing the lamp on contact 98. You can see it on the video where the rightmost spacecraft's weapon is. I think that is something on the lamp driver board.
Your probably right, it's not air noise, it's like motor noise whirr. Only thing you can really do with bearings is replace the fan itself. But maybe it's just dirty I'll have to remove it to get a good look at it. But those are like secondary non-game stopping issues.
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Hard to tell the way that is mounted on the Hyperball Chris, I'll have to remove the fan I guess when I get this other stuff whack-a-moled. This fan is mounted so that your looking at it from a much different angle. Seems the air is blowing directly on the firing solonoid for the cannon of Rapid Fire.
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Ok I ran a continuity check from the brown and grey/white stripe wires which (I think) power the cannon. The brown goes to J3 and the grey/white goes to J5 of the solonoid driver board at the backbox. While in the area I also tapped the ground plane and heat sink of Q18 on the Solonoid driver board. I got continuity on the grey/white stripe wire off those as well as the ground plane of Q17.
I double checked the posts of the connectors. their all making good contact on each connector. There is no voltage that appears to be sent from the solonoid driver to either of those wires. (although I'll double check that while firing a volley during game play. I am thinking I need to order a few TIP102's (SE9302) transistors and I'll try swapping Q18 out as well as Q17. I don't think the ground plane should carry continuity like that even with a ground wire (even if the grey/white is gnd), but I don't know. How do you test a TIP102 transistor?
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Ok, I installed the entire corrosion rebuild kit for the MPU as well as the Solonoid Driver/Voltage Regulator upgrade kit. That didn't get the cannon back up. I also resocketed and replaced the cmos ram P5101L-3 at U8, and that did. So, the game is up and running.
However now the problem has scurried off to find some other place to reside now.
I also replaced the manual reset button itself to no avail. For some reason I still can't reset without powering off or grounding pin 39 of the CPU. I am able to occasionally play a full game in it's entirety. What has taken hold now is a reset upon firing a ball on random occasions. I haven't found a pattern to it except that it only happens during game play, and when a ball hits a target.
The funny thing is when it resets, the blinking stops at like 4 flashes and resets again. Other times it will reset and come back up.
It may be the action of the cannon shot, or a bad PIA socket (since I also replaced the CPU and both PIA's) I'm really not sure. I think now my next step would be to replace the socketed PIA's and CPU at U9, U10, U11 as well as the 6810 ram IC at U7.
With any luck that may get it. Crossing fingers.
There is one other issue, that's not critical, but the bulb at L98 is always out on the playfield. I've replaced it, but it stays out. Basically, the invaders progress down towards their 'ships'. If all 4 invaders board the ship on the right, the bottom right lamp stays off-will not light. I'm not sure how, with two lamp driver boards, you find the correct transistor/ic that has the problem. Possibly something simple, but I've never touched a lamp driver board before.
As for the circular ball loader, it's acting a little aged as with play it seems to loosen up a bit and perform ok. I'm not sure what kind of maintenance should be done with that contraption. It seems to turn very anologue(ish) and not all the time moves with fluidity. It doesn't appear to be powered by a motor, more with the force of gravity and balls putting pressure on it to turn clockwise.
So, yea - spread spectrum, there's a few areas that I need to work on. If anyone has any ideas on any one of these areas, I'd appreciate your input.
However now the problem has scurried off to find some other place to reside now.
I also replaced the manual reset button itself to no avail. For some reason I still can't reset without powering off or grounding pin 39 of the CPU. I am able to occasionally play a full game in it's entirety. What has taken hold now is a reset upon firing a ball on random occasions. I haven't found a pattern to it except that it only happens during game play, and when a ball hits a target.
The funny thing is when it resets, the blinking stops at like 4 flashes and resets again. Other times it will reset and come back up.
It may be the action of the cannon shot, or a bad PIA socket (since I also replaced the CPU and both PIA's) I'm really not sure. I think now my next step would be to replace the socketed PIA's and CPU at U9, U10, U11 as well as the 6810 ram IC at U7.
With any luck that may get it. Crossing fingers.
There is one other issue, that's not critical, but the bulb at L98 is always out on the playfield. I've replaced it, but it stays out. Basically, the invaders progress down towards their 'ships'. If all 4 invaders board the ship on the right, the bottom right lamp stays off-will not light. I'm not sure how, with two lamp driver boards, you find the correct transistor/ic that has the problem. Possibly something simple, but I've never touched a lamp driver board before.
As for the circular ball loader, it's acting a little aged as with play it seems to loosen up a bit and perform ok. I'm not sure what kind of maintenance should be done with that contraption. It seems to turn very anologue(ish) and not all the time moves with fluidity. It doesn't appear to be powered by a motor, more with the force of gravity and balls putting pressure on it to turn clockwise.
So, yea - spread spectrum, there's a few areas that I need to work on. If anyone has any ideas on any one of these areas, I'd appreciate your input.
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Ok, picking back up on this after a year. The wheel no longer turns. What makes the wheel which feeds the balls turn?
Also, I guess I'm just not looking in the right place. Where's the volume control?
Also, I guess I'm just not looking in the right place. Where's the volume control?
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Found volume adjustment. You have to push the switch 20 times inside the coin door, when the display reads 20, then you push the game start button on the coin door to the level you want it at on the display. I think I settled for 6.
But back to the ball feeder wheel. I replaced a diode at CR6 on the Transformer power module with a 3 amp. I am now reading 50vdc to the motor which I believe is supposed to rotate the wheel. However nothing is occurring. No whirring, no smoking, no overheating. It's just not functioning. I have removed all of the balls from the cabinet. So if it has to relate to a ball sensor, it should be seeing an empty tray.
Is there some sort of sensor that activates the wheel? I would think any motor that gets 50 vdc should activate regardless. I am testing the voltage right at the motors' connector.
Any ideas?
But back to the ball feeder wheel. I replaced a diode at CR6 on the Transformer power module with a 3 amp. I am now reading 50vdc to the motor which I believe is supposed to rotate the wheel. However nothing is occurring. No whirring, no smoking, no overheating. It's just not functioning. I have removed all of the balls from the cabinet. So if it has to relate to a ball sensor, it should be seeing an empty tray.
Is there some sort of sensor that activates the wheel? I would think any motor that gets 50 vdc should activate regardless. I am testing the voltage right at the motors' connector.
Any ideas?
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Took the motor up to Lima Armature. They're going to test it out.
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Zinfer
Well-known member
Lima Armature said there was something binding in the gearbox.
Spent $110 on a new motor/gearbox from Marco Specialties. Installed, ball feeder still refuses to turn.
Can someone help with this last issue?
Spent $110 on a new motor/gearbox from Marco Specialties. Installed, ball feeder still refuses to turn.
Can someone help with this last issue?
karloz25
Member
did u ever get the wheel spinning? i have the same problem, cannon shots but the wheel doesn't deliver the balls and the agitator isn't working either
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Take the ball feeder apart, carefully. The grease loses all its oil, and turns to wax, and that won't work.
Clean the grease off (outside the cabinet) with something like Gumout or Brake Clean, or (inside the cabinet) with Q-tips and Goo Gone. Re-grease with something like Super Lube (light coating) and you should be good to go for years.
