Bally Paragon sound, hitting wrong notes, too high!!

doodlesdaddy

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Bally Paragon sound, hitting wrong notes, too high!!

Like title says,

Bought with bad to no sound, replaced soundboard, sound now works, but doesnt hit the low notes, seems to be out of tune or an octave high. Have Alltek MPU board, and Alltek solenoid board. No other problems with game. I have fixed and restored everything elso..... I read a post about the MPU J1 Pin 7 causing some problem like this. I took that pin 7 out and restarted the game. It would play the sounds, but way way off and high. Way worse then when pin 7 was plugged in. I have also played with the sound board knobs, but no change.....Hopefully somebody knows what to do????????? Thanks
 
Well, I wired up a couple different speakers, still the same. Hitting most notes ok, but some are way too high. All the boards are new, except the lamp driver board. Only thing I can think of is a connection problem but I have checked all of them. Need someone with more know how to chime in. Thanks
 
While I can't really give you a direct answer, I'll try to help as I would be interested in what you find. I have a Paragon that started acting just as you describe, however all my boards are original. For awhile, after it 'warmed up' the sounds would return to normal but that too seems to have become sporadic. Too many projects going right now to start tearing into it just yet.

I also read about pin 7 on J1 - when I get time I was going to clean the pins - check and possibly reflow the solder, clean and possibly rebuild the connector to see if that solves it. I thought trying to eliminate the easy first before I start replacing parts on the boards themselves.

I have to ask as I haven't taken the time to check myself, but does the wire from pin 7 go directly to the sound board? If so, I would suggest 'jumping' a new wire from pin 7 to where it goes on the sound board to eliminate the cable or connectors being a problem. Either way it should help in narrowing down possible suspects.
 
Yeah, the wire goes straight there. I already unplugged it and kinda sanded it a little on both ends.... no change. When it is unplugged, the notes are way higher though. When plugged in, not as high, but still not right. I will try your jumper idea tommorow, maybe the wire has something wrong inside of it or something....kinda shooting in the dark at this point. Ill keep you updated. Ill try to do that tommorrow after work, if time allows!!!
 
Well, more information, if anybody is still reading this!! I tried what CPU.SLAVE suggested and ran a jumper wire from the MPU J1 pin 7 connection to the sound board. Not sure, but either the sound was a little better, or it sounded better because something had not warmed up yet. But maybe a minute later I thought it sounded the same as before, which is it is not hitting the low notes.
BUT, i examined the speaker, and it looked to have a few very small tears in it. Not sure if this would cause this condition, but Im gonna get a new one at Radio Shack tw. It is a four inch speaker, are they all the same? I dont know, Ill check at Marcos for the specs. While playing with the speaker, it seemed loose, and had multiple miss matched screws holding it in, and what appeared to be staples. The staples looked to be from the factory, so obviously the speaker has already been replaced or messed with.
I will update after the speaker replacement. Thanks
 
Correct if wrong, but so far you have replaced the following:
Sound Board
MPU - AllteK
Driver - Alltek
Speakers?
Jumping a wire would have eliminated the connector and the wire itself - I guess I would be lost at this point as well. The only thing not tested would be the cable\connectors from the sound board to the speakers. What I would focus on is that if things change after it's been running for awhile I would be looking for a bad solder joint or failing part. Is that sound board new or ??

I would suggest posting a tech help post on rec.games.pinball - plenty of sharp people over there who might have better suggestions and solutions. Good Luck and let me\us know what you find as the problem.
 
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I havent replaced the speaker yet, just found it to have tears in it. I just picked up a new one at a stereo shop and will put it in tonight. This is a good possibility for the problem. A speaker is essentially an air pump, and with tears in it, it is not completely seperating the air from inside the cabinet to the outside. I got my fingers crossed!!!!
 
well, installed the new speaker. Sound sounds way louder, clearer, better, however it is still not hitting the low notes. The low notes basically play about 1 octave too high. Now, I am officially stumped. Only other thing I can think of is a bad wire somewhere, or the newly rebuilt sound board I got has some problem. Dont know, will not mess with for now. Gonna finish the cosmetic part of the restoration with the new stencil kit i just got.

I will be monitoring this post if anyone has any more suggestions. Thanks
 
well, installed the new speaker. Sound sounds way louder, clearer, better, however it is still not hitting the low notes. The low notes basically play about 1 octave too high. Now, I am officially stumped. Only other thing I can think of is a bad wire somewhere, or the newly rebuilt sound board I got has some problem. Dont know, will not mess with for now. Gonna finish the cosmetic part of the restoration with the new stencil kit i just got.

I will be monitoring this post if anyone has any more suggestions. Thanks

What are you comparing this to? Why do you think that you are one octave too high?

You have replacement boards for everything but the power supply board? This very well could be your problem...

I am curious as to your reference as this could be very good knowledge about the replacement sound board/driver board/motherboard not replicating the correct sounds.

Thanks
Bryan
 
No, I do have a new rectifier board in it. All test points are accurate. I am comparing the sound to a Paragon my uncle has, and also to multiple videos on Youtube. I am certain the sound is wrong. The rebuilt sound board I got is a AS-2518-32, and the manual states I need a AS-2518-50. Are these interchangeable, or did I get the wrong one? The U3 prom number seems to not be correct, from what I can find on the internet. I think this is the problem. Unfortunately it is also the same wrong number on the original U3 prom. Basically, I think I need a AS-2518-50 board, with a different prom. I emailed the place I bought the soundboard to check. The site indicated that the boards were interchangeable, but I definitely need the correct U3. This is confusing
 
If anybody is still reading this!!!! I have found the soundboard and U3 prom that I got, is actually for a Bally Lost World and others of that vintage. I do indeed need at least a different U3, and maybe the correct board. The prom will work, like it does, but will play some wrong notes. Much internet surfing. I did find on ksarcade.net that they sell some kind of adaptor, 82S123 prom to 2716 eprom adapter, and I emailed them about that, to see if that would correct my wrong sound. I will keep updating this, more as a way to vent at this point!!!!!!!!!!(im losing my mind!!)
 
If anybody is still reading this!!!! I have found the soundboard and U3 prom that I got, is actually for a Bally Lost World and others of that vintage. I do indeed need at least a different U3, and maybe the correct board. The prom will work, like it does, but will play some wrong notes. Much internet surfing. I did find on ksarcade.net that they sell some kind of adaptor, 82S123 prom to 2716 eprom adapter, and I emailed them about that, to see if that would correct my wrong sound. I will keep updating this, more as a way to vent at this point!!!!!!!!!!(im losing my mind!!)

I think, someone corect me if I am wrong, you need the 729-51_3.123 rom for that sound board. Not sure if the soundboard for lost world and paragon are the same and it's just a different rom? They do have a different P/N, but that might just denote a ROM change...

It would be a lot easier to find the correct rom then trying to use an adapter. Do you even have the 2716 rom files for paragon sound?
 
OK, this is hopefully figured out. Through email I talked to someone really knowledgeable at k's arcade. They advised that the board as-2518-32 with prom 729-18 is for Lost World and others of that generation. That sound board WILL work in a Paragon and others of that generation, but it will NOT sound right, just like the symptoms I have observed. They advised I need a board as-2518-50 with prom 729-51, which is exactly what the manual and my internet research indicate. I sent them mine today, and they were kind enough to go ahead and send me the correct board, in exchange. So, basically, fuctionally, the sound boards are interchangeable, however the sound notes may not always be correct. I will update once I receive the correct board, but Im pretty solid on this should be the fix. Thanks to all who have read this thread for my ranting and "thinking out loud troubleshooting"!!!!!!!!!
 
Got the sound board, the correct one. Mounted it and plugged it in, turned game on. IT worked perfectly with all the correct sounds, for about 15 minutes. It is now holding out the last note of the sound sequence, uindefinitely until another sound switch is activated, at which time it will hold that last note out. I tried the sustain, with no luck. Email the seller and waiting on them. Hope they understand what Im talking about.
 
I know I know, Im the only one responding to myself here but oh well.......Made a video of the game doing the wierd sound problem..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl_y3QWLB5E

Sent it to the seller, and they advised that the board had prematurely failed and they are sending me another one. Hopefully that will fix it. I will occupy my precious little pinball time this week with respraying the cabinet with my stencil kit I guess.
 
Got the new board, wanted to finish this thread. New board works fine, all sound are correct. The first one was not able to be adjusted for the sustain. The sustain was just out of range to be adjusted. New one works fine, and seems to have plenty of adjustment left for future degredation. Consider this thread completed
 
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