Bally Home Model replacement boards

[HHaase]

Ok, as per Ken Layton's idea, I'm interested enough to start looking into making these. Though, I've never played one nor had one in my hands.

Originally I was hoping to make a single board pair, CPU and PSU, to run all the home model games.... but now that doesn't look to be possible.

The question now is, which is more popular? The series I or the series II? Fireball could have either one. EK was Series I. Captain Fantastic as well as Galaxy Ranger were Series II.

-Hans

 

[KenLayton]

Pictures of the boards

As promised, here are pictures of the Series 2 boards.

This batch of pictures are of the power supply board and transformer box.

 

[KenLayton]

Power supply connectors

This batch are the input and output connectors of the power supply board.

 

[HHaase]

Oh, good. Dimensionally it won't matter how big the PSU is, I can go as small as I want as long as it works. Enough slack on the wires to do vertical pins and shrink it by about half?

-Hans

 

[KenLayton]

Gameboard

This batch is the gameboard. Dimensions of gameboard are 8" by 15".

 

[KenLayton]

Misc gameboard pics

This batch are of the hole cutout in the wood panel of the backbox for the gameboard to mount and shine through the backglass.

 

[KenLayton]

Oh, good. Dimensionally it won't matter how big the PSU is, I can go as small as I want as long as it works. Enough slack on the wires to do vertical pins and shrink it by about half?

-Hans

The AC connector cable would have to stay close to where it is now. It could be moved a bit if needed. The DC output cable is plenty long and can easily be moved around.

The existing board has captive 1/4" tall standoffs where the screws mount it.

This machine is in a drivein restaurant about one block from my apartment. I can get more pictures during business hours only (they close at 8pm).

 

[HHaase]

8"x15" for the CPU board though? EEEEK! Might be able to shrink it down somewhat, but using it for all those display lamps too makes it bigger than it has to be. That one will take some thinking about.

I'll have to get hold of one of them, see what can be done. Maybe run some of the lamps remotely with standard sockets and a thin MDF backboard for it all. Having the integrated lamps and display makes things interesting for sure.

-Hans

 

[KenLayton]

One could always fabricate "adapter brackets" to mount a smaller game board.

The lamps, though, have to shine through certain areas of the backglass to light up number of players, ball in play, game over, and tilt. One could have led's mounted on small seperate boards for these functions. After all, the light only has to emit forward toward the backglass.

 

[HHaase]

One could always fabricate "adapter brackets" to mount a smaller game board.

The lamps, though, have to shine through certain areas of the backglass to light up number of players, ball in play, game over, and tilt. One could have led's mounted on small seperate boards for these functions. After all, the light only has to emit forward toward the backglass.

That's what I'm thinking. Ignore the lamps and display on the circuit board design and have them separate via connectors. Mount it all on a nice sheet of MDF or something similar to get the lamp spacing all correct. All depends on the cost factor.... will take a while to look into all that. Perhaps even use the small Williams lamp boards that they used sometimes for single 555's.

In the meantime, I think I'll start working on some schematics and a layout for the series II power supply. Probably more needed anyway, given that atrocious board that it's built on.

-Hans

-Hans

 

[Lindsey]

Original thread:
http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=186133

I'm going to take my comments to this thread

I don't expect to sell many, and I don't expect to break even. I expect to use it as a learning experience to work toward more complex projects.

That's the attitude I take with my projects too. In prototype quantities it's not like you're even going to lose THAT much money if you don't sell any of them.

I do have ideas for that extra surface area on the power supplies. Mostly for fuses, some for the different connectors/jumpers as needed. Though if the mounting allows it, I'd love to reduce the size. All depends on design of the backbox itself.

It's really going to come down to how many boards you order. Anything under 100 pieces and you'll probably find that an alternate mounting method for the new board is going to be much cheaper than making the board huge to mount in the original location. In small quantities a board the size of the original will be pretty expensive ($50+). That's for the blank board.

Going to have to also track down the schematics for that Lintronics LED display, that was an outsourced part that isn't in the schematic book.

So you can drive the original or replace it? If you're looking to build a CPU socket daughter board to replace the original processor and drive the original display there is enough information on the original MPU schematic to achieve that. If you're looking at building a complete MPU that's a different story all together. Even still I wouldn't expect to need a datasheet for the original display because you'll likely just use individual 7-segment LEDs.

 

[Lindsey]

8"x15" for the CPU board though? EEEEK! Might be able to shrink it down somewhat, but using it for all those display lamps too makes it bigger than it has to be. That one will take some thinking about.

I'll have to get hold of one of them, see what can be done. Maybe run some of the lamps remotely with standard sockets and a thin MDF backboard for it all. Having the integrated lamps and display makes things interesting for sure.

-Hans

I would probably do what you've suggested and make a backboard containing the new MPU and lamps mounted separately. LEDs are the way to go for the lamps on long, narrow PCBs. I would integrate the display into the board. It will be a lot cheaper that way.

When you look at what it costs to get the PCBs made you'll quickly realize that a board the size of the original is not an option.

 

[HHaase]

For now, I've got a lot of research to do before I start diving into the CPU boards.

In the meantime, I'm going to go after the Series II power supply first.

So, here's my wish-list on that board.

Fusing:
- Needs fuses added on the 5vdv logic, VLED, and input 18v circuits as they are currently unfused.
- Move the 3 x 2.5 amp fuses for the +18vdc and +22vdv circuits from wherever they are onto the board. Plus move them to the powered side of the circuit, instead of the ground side as they are now. As it stands now, a short at a coil won't blow a fuse.
- GI lights are already fused just after the transformer, those are fine.
- So, will be a total of 5 on-board fuses that I can think of right now.

Regulators:
- There's only really two regulators on the board. I'd like to replace them both with much more efficient pieces that don't require the monster heatsink. I'm eyeballing the LM2575 for the +5v circuit. (1A rated instead of .5A rated). Still working on a plan on the 18v, may not change it much other than bumping up the TIP125 to a more robust TIP107.

Rectifiers:
- Going to stick with individual diodes, but will use the same all around. Will go with 1N5407's, rated the same as the original A15F's in the larger rectifier.

Board:
-Of course, it will be a double sided fully masked board.

LED's and test points
- Test points of course, as well as LED's to show good power circuits.


Anything else I'm missing, or

 

[Pinball Wizard]

I own a Fireball home model, power board is currently toasted in it, burned traces rit off the board. Haven't really looking into it since I bought it a month or 2 ago. Couldn't even tell you if it's series 1 or series 2, but if you need pictures let me know. I will probably try and repair the power board first but they are garbage psu's anyways so I will probably end up with one of yours.

 

[HHaase]

Quickest way to tell is if it has the round metal regulator in the middle of the power supply, that's a series I.

-Hans

 

[KenLayton]

The Series 2 power supply had five circuit breakers mounted inside the power transformer box. The 18vac winding was NOT fused at all (it needed to be).

The Series 1 power supply had NO FUSES at all on the secondary windings of the transformer. The only fuse in the whole machine was an 8 amp main line fuse on the primary of the transformer!

 

[Lindsey]

Regulators:
- There's only really two regulators on the board. I'd like to replace them both with much more efficient pieces that don't require the monster heatsink. I'm eyeballing the LM2575 for the +5v circuit. (1A rated instead of .5A rated). Still working on a plan on the 18v, may not change it much other than bumping up the TIP125 to a more robust TIP107.

You could also consider a switching circuit instead of linear regulators. Linear might be cheaper though.

Rectifiers:
- Going to stick with individual diodes, but will use the same all around. Will go with 1N5407's, rated the same as the original A15F's in the larger rectifier.

I would go with bridges but either will work.

Board:
-Of course, it will be a double sided fully masked board.

Make sure you use nice heavy traces. It will add cost to the PCBs but it's needed.

LED's and test points
- Test points of course, as well as LED's to show good power circuits.

I would add LEDs to show bad fuses (like Capcom).

Anything else I'm missing, or

Awesome ideas so far! Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

If I can get a home model (a friend has a broken one I might try to get) I will work on a CPU replacement daughter board but other than that it looks like you're on your own on this one

 

[HHaase]

The LM2575 is a "simple switcher". I may actually go with the LM2576 instead. Same basic piece, just a higher amperage rating of 3A instead of 1A. Still looking for an 18v switcher that won't break the bank, may have to stick with a small linear driver and transistor for the 18v circuit.

I did consider bridges, but cost-wise it works out cheaper to go with individual diodes. For a board with this low of a demand I really need to keep cost under control.

The good thing is that if I go with expressPCB again, like I did on my tester boards, it doesn't appear that the copper coverage makes a difference on board cost. It's all about the board size, and only an excess of drilled holes would bump up the cost. Once I get the layout solid, I'll go as heavy as I can on the traces.

I'll have to look into the Capcom layout, see how they did that. All depends on cost and complexity. Good idea though.

At the moment, my schematic redraw of the Series II cpu board is pretty much at a dead end until I get a board in-hand. Those damned punched holes in the original schematic means I can't see it all on paper.

-Hans

 

[Mitsurugi-w]

Can a machine using a series 1 be modified to use a series 2?

 

[HHaase]

It would be a lot of work. You'd need to replace the transformer and all the boards in it. Possible not not practical. Not sure about the wiring from the boards to the playfield, haven't gotten that far into it yet.

When/If/should I get the Series II power supply done, I'll do the Series I after that.

The sticking point right now is just that I want to find a more efficient 18v circuit, and I'm not finding anything that meets my criteria. (Fixed 18v, 5A or better, switching regulator).

-Hans