Bad Power Supplies - Fix Or Replace?

[Alpha-tron]

Here my theory. A nice clean powersupply will keep a pcb running longer and hopefully more protected against power issue damages.

Maintenance is always better than repair.

Cracking opening a working powersupply to check out If the caps that are beginning to fail, the resistors are cooking or the transistor's heat sink system might failing are good things to know before repair event happens.

Learning how to repair is a great idea cause. While currently these are available at a good price. The value of money is already changing. Our lovely vendors might need raise prices. So buying some extras to support the guy who supports our hobby is always a good thing to do.

 

[bakerhillpins]

For years, I have always just replaced power supplies that went bad. As I've gotten older and my skills have gotten better, I realize that it's cheaper to just fix them. 99% of the time, it's just caps that need replaced (in my experience). You're talking +/-$10 in caps vs. +/-$30 for a new supply. Now that's only a $20 difference, but $20 is $20, as they say. What do you guys do?

If it's the OEM supply it gets rebuilt and put back in the game. If it's some rando replacement it just chuck it in a box and search for the OEM setup.

 

[LeeWoo]

I've held onto the dead ones I pull in hopes of one day saving them. My skills are definitely better (partially thanks to you ), so it might be time to start pulling them out of the bin and revive some of them.

 

[Babbleship]

So is it worth it to hold on to the original non working power supplies? in the event you decided to sell the game you can include the original power supply if someone wants to rebuild one and keep the game 100% original ?

 

[lilypad19]

So is it worth it to hold on to the original non working power supplies? in the event you decided to sell the game you can include the original power supply if someone wants to rebuild one and keep the game 100% original ?

Yes please. Most of us care about original.. Especially if they are linear supplies. I was lucky, on my Joust Cocktail.. they had bypassed all of the original PS - but left it.. I was able to make it all original again.. My Gyruss (inexplicably) had an original switcher.. Which I fixed. If it was some non-original - I would have likely just replaced it.
So.. leave the original in place .. even if bypassed for some reason

 

[CamoYoshi]

I usually just replace but I don't throw away bad ones, just salvage parts off them. I will repair bespoke power supplies, but a modern switching power supply will operate better than a older style transformer or linear regulator style.

 

[ArcadeTechGW]

It's really up to you.

If you have more time than money, and want to be a purist, repair.

If you have more money than time, replace.

If you love troubleshooting and know you may not be able to figure it out due to the lack of any available information, but want to try anyway, repair.

 

[bakerhillpins]

If you have more money than time, replace.

Or just send it out... but don't scrap it.

 

[SillyB]

I started fixing the AT style Peter Chou power supplies on Dynamo cabs since there is no 1:1 replacement available anymore. I wanted factory correct mounting and power switch location so I tinkered and read some info from Ken Layton that helped get me comfortable. I found many of them were easy to fix with a good clean, a new fan, deoxit, a few caps and an occasional diode or resistor.

This lead me to look at the pile of old switchers I had thrown in a bin. I learned early on in this hobby that just because I didn't know how to fix something now doesn't mean I never would so I'd shelf pretty much everything for the future. I knew I could at least harvest some valuable parts from anything pulled out of an arcade game. I spent a few evenings running through power supplies and spending 15 mins and $5 or less in parts each was able to fix a decent pile of them. The ones that didn't have the most common failures and would need much more troubleshooting went back in the bin.

Taking something broken and getting it working feels satisfying. It's not much different from capping a monitor. Saving money is a plus.

 

[vintagegamer]

Damn, that dude needs a shave.

View attachment 741854

That's the new Bosley cap

 

[andrewb]

There was a legendary fight about this very topic, on RGVAC back in the day. On one hand, you had industry legend "Randy Fromm" saying that you should repair the switching power supplies and describing how to do it. On the other hand, you had industry legend "Bob Roberts" taking the operator's approach and saying it wasn't worth the time to spend the effort to replace them when a new one was $25. They battled viciously, and the argument still rages on!!!

Bob Roberts is mistaken

groups.google.com

Great find.

This obviously isn't directed at you, but people need to understand that Bob was an operator, not a collector. He was a businessman, not a preservationist. The main variable he was always looking to optimize was money.

Getting a game to run on location is a completely different problem than a home-use game that is only run a few hours a week. As collectors, we aren't looking to maximize revenue-generating uptime, or profit. So the variables we are looking to optimize are not the same.

We're here to preserve these games. We are the custodians of these games for future generations, so there's still a hobby in 50 or 100 years.

It's also 25 years later than that thread, where things that were disposable commodities back then (like Peter Chou switchers in JAMMA games), are now as collectible as Bronze and Golden-age parts, and preserving originality just makes a game that much cooler, even if it's an Mortal Kombat.

The more we each can do now to keep something original in these games, is one more that a collector will enjoy decades from now, the way we enjoy original, numbers-matching vintage cars today. (Or anything else that has survived unmolested for decades, with its originality still intact.)

 

[VectorCollector]

There was a legendary fight about this very topic, on RGVAC back in the day. On one hand, you had industry legend "Randy Fromm" saying that you should repair the switching power supplies and describing how to do it. On the other hand, you had industry legend "Bob Roberts" taking the operator's approach and saying it wasn't worth the time to spend the effort to replace them when a new one was $25. They battled viciously, and the argument still rages on!!!

Bob Roberts is mistaken

groups.google.com

Very similar to Tempest K6100 Deflection boards with unusual faults. Fix it or just replace it? (And send the faulty board back to the customer who probably will trash it? And the answer to the fault and ultimate fix will never be known). Difficult to say what is the right approach. LOL
And the argument still rages on!!!!

BACK ON TOPIC: For simple switchers - just fix it unless the transformer has open windings etc. Not really much difference to fixing a monitor or even simpler linear power supplies - caps, power resistors, mosfets, diodes, bad solder etc. Overall, better to fix it and bring it back to operation than letting it rot in a landfill.

 

[VectorCollector]

No that was a case of I didn't know how to fix it VectorCollector. If I knew how to fix it, I would have. I tried everything I could, including working on it for hours that I didn't bill the customer for. There's always somebody who wants to say they could do it better though, it's one of the reasons I make less videos now, they dont' really offer much of value when people like you are so good at fixing things like that, you should be making the videos, not me. I'm also not any good at playing the games, so I don't make gameplay videos anymore either.

Maybe ask that customer to return the board and perhaps @andrewb will fix it (for free).
When we stop adding to the KLOV Knowledge Base, then either we know all we need to know or we don't care.

BTW, I believe some of your vids (and postings here) recently inspired me to fix a couple of K6100 deflection boards. So, your vids do have value. LOL

Perhaps this thread will also inspire others to fix their switching power supplies.

 

[Alpha-tron]

It is easier to teach a user how to do maintenance than repair but I consider this a step into learning how to fix a broken one.

Maybe we can start a picture data base of the old ones up to the new ones of today.

 

[WadeLanham]

I'd say a person would have to be pretty hard core about keeping original parts and/or saving a few dollars, to spend the time and money repairing a switching power supply that has a ready replacement for very little money. Even knowing the crowd here, I'm a little surprised by how many are doing it.

 

[security0001]

Great find.

This obviously isn't directed at you, but people need to understand that Bob was an operator, not a collector. He was a businessman, not a preservationist. The main variable he was always looking to optimize was money.

Getting a game to run on location is a completely different problem than a home-use game that is only run a few hours a week. As collectors, we aren't looking to maximize revenue-generating uptime, or profit. So the variables we are looking to optimize are not the same.

We're here to preserve these games. We are the custodians of these games for future generations, so there's still a hobby in 50 or 100 years.

It's also 25 years later than that thread, where things that were disposable commodities back then (like Peter Chou switchers in JAMMA games), are now as collectible as Bronze and Golden-age parts, and preserving originality just makes a game that much cooler, even if it's an Mortal Kombat.

The more we each can do now to keep something original in these games, is one more that a collector will enjoy decades from now, the way we enjoy original, numbers-matching vintage cars today. (Or anything else that has survived unmolested for decades, with its originality still intact.)

this is exactly why several years ago i starting making alot of cap kits for the original PS and carrying fans for them so they can hopefully be saved plus alot of them are obsolete too so if you don't fix the original you can't find one that easily anymore with the same mounting and connectors. i fix most of the computer style and the cheap switchers i usually replace unless they are something of quality and then i fix in my games.

 

[lilypad19]

I'd say a person would have to be pretty hard core about keeping original parts and/or saving a few dollars, to spend the time and money repairing a switching power supply that has a ready replacement for very little money. Even knowing the crowd here, I'm a little surprised by how many are doing it.

Or just likes fixing broken stuff.

 

[bakerhillpins]

I'd say a person would have to be pretty hard core about keeping original parts and/or saving a few dollars, to spend the time and money repairing a switching power supply that has a ready replacement for very little money. Even knowing the crowd here, I'm a little surprised by how many are doing it.

Half of the fun of this is trying to get it back to OEM setup.

Now if I can just find the time to scan in all the labels/stickers on my WG Raster/Vector monitors and document their placement.

 

[CharlieG]

I've held onto the dead ones I pull in hopes of one day saving them.

Same! I've got a pile of these mini projects waiting for a rainy day!

 

[Digindug82]

To me it depends on the power supply, like the one centuri used in there games, the other's I just buy a new one, but kudos on rebuilding the ones you do