Avatar Pinball -- Stern

[Deadly]

stern will suck with an occasional B- title to tide pinheads over.

Giggle - no my friend. Even pinheads are getting sick of the B- titles. I would sure think that Stern is to the point if it had one more game fail they'd go under. They are taking the safe road utilizing licensed themes. I always argue - IMHO the success to making money is in steps.
1.) Curb appeal - it's what draws the player over to the machine. Gotta be something people can relate to - thus a licensed themes
2.) Once the person drops their money it needs sounds, lights and DMD animation for the "WHOA" factor.
3.) But what I feel is the most grossly over looked item is ball longevity. Has to have the happy medium. Short enough to make money but long enough to make the player want more. When you have a game hand you your ass .. well ... we didn't like it as kids and I sure as hell don't like it now. I watch people play my machines and they get pissed because of the short ball times because they suck. What does Gary Stern think the public consists of? Non pinheads you big dummy.

 

[AtariShag]

Arcade games - fail. We have IT Technologies pretty much one of the last games in town. Are they the Gary Stern of Video games? Kind looks like it don;t it? Video games are dead people. Our glory days are just that - glory days.

I think the sales spreadsheet of Raw Thrills' alone would disagree with you. They haven't sold several thousand Terminator Salvation games recently because it's a dead market. Just because it isn't 1981 anymore doesn't mean that there aren't millions to be made with video games. Stern Pinball is also a multi-million dollar company from what I have been told.

I understand that there is no one other than Stern and if he wants to keep doing what he's doing then it's his choice. I'm happy they are still around and Gary seems like a great guy from the little I've talked to him before. Obviously what they do works for them and if the "ain't broke don't fix it" mentality suits them, great. As you say, from their business perspective, what they are doing is either right or good enough. But does that mean that there is no other way for pins to go? That the Stern method is the only method for pins in this present time? Who knows, until someone tries differently.

It's my opinion that any pin that either pulled out the stops on innovation or a striking and different visual design could be a winner, with or without a license. Those collectors that wouldn't touch a non-licensed game? I'm sure they would if it were something different and cool, something that made people's jaw drop open when they first saw it. If a game becomes well-known in arcades then that will do enough to carry a reputation down the road. And as you say, where collectors aren't the number 1 market for Stern, that means amusement locations are. And if pinball machines kept up with the times to be flashy, they would make more money for operators and those ops would be more willing to spend the cash on a pin, if the price had to be higher because of the improved technology(maybe the AVATAR pinball game this thread is supposed to be about will do the trick to some extent with the 3D backglass). The two pins I have at my arcade do OK but they've never been top earners, even when brand new. I think that if they did more to attract people, then they would do better which is why I think a lot of people, including myself would like to see a change over to LCD or some other colorful monitor someday. It's like game graphics - there is a reason modern games don't look like the Atari 2600 because we like to see improvements. But pins haven't changed much since the 90's and even new pins look outdated with those orange screens next to anything current, including redemption games. I think that's why a lot of people want to see some improvements and some changes is because otherwise, on the outside of Stern it seems stagnant.

 

[Deadly]

I guess I should say my statement about video games beinga failure .. more of a blanket statement I suppose. As a whole the video game market from what we all knew as kids ... well .... that ship has long sailed was "supposed" to be my point
And making money is tough sailing.

Anyways I've completely shat on this thread - my apologies to the op. I'm starting a new thread over in the pinball thread area. You guys got me fired up

 

[zfcamaro]

Lyonsarcade I have to agree with you on pretty much everything you've said. Sadly people get their panties in a wad because your opinion comes across as fact. I get what you are saying. None the less I honestly do agree with you.

When people think Stern can simply replace a DMD with a drop in LCD like replacing a CRT with an LCD that couldn't be any more further from the truth. It's flat out too costly to use LCD's and all the other shit that goes along with it ... Stern himself has admitted this. Too costly - dead issue people.
Wish in one hand shit in the other.

Bagging on Williams - why even waste the energy? They saw a market that was destined to fail is what I think. Hard to argue that huh? BAck to the same old shit argument of reinventing pinball. Seriously - what the hell else can be done with pinball? Pin2K's was a mixture of vids and pins right? That shit failed too. Yes I liked all 2 of them just fine but they didn;t sell well. Hell even Steve Ritchie said they just weren;t cost efective. Arcade games - fail. We have IT Technologies pretty much one of the last games in town. Are they the Gary Stern of Video games? Kind looks like it don;t it? Video games are dead people. Our glory days are just that - glory days. It's too freaking expensive to make this pinball shit anymore. Stern just has to be on their last leg. They gotta be. Cheapening their machines to me is a last stand. Let me say I love pinball to the point it gives me a hard on. My wife says the word pinball and I get hard. I really do love it that much. I hate saying 90% of what I did but it's time that people try to understand if it was your business what would you do? I'm not a brand snob. I think Stern has made some killer games .... but the games IMHO just keep getting worse and worse. Sorry Zcamaro - I too was stoked about Avatar until I saw how they disembowled the hardware. I was looking forward to actually nutting up to buy my first NIB. Instead I'm buying a LOTR. I hope this game gives you and your family all the happiness in the world. I sincerely mean that but I won;t be buying one.

No need to appologize my good man, trust me wild horses couldn't keep that Pin from entering our home Best of luck on the LOTR

 

[AtariShag]

I guess I should say my statement about video games beinga failure .. more of a blanket statement I suppose. As a whole the video game market from what we all knew as kids ... well .... that ship has long sailed was "supposed" to be my point
And making money is tough sailing.

Anyways I've completely shat on this thread - my apologies to the op. I'm starting a new thread over in the pinball thread area. You guys got me fired up

I know you were trying to get at that meaning. I personally hate how it's all shifted towards redemption, where instead of something like Pac-Man pulling $4000 a week it's something like Big Bass Wheel. But I'm optimistic about the video market still, with the right ideas you can get a game that makes a killing. One game can change everything, which I think could apply to pinball as well. It's just that in the early 80's almost every game did something to change things, now that's a rare event.

 

[VectorJunkie]

Lyonsarcade I have to agree with you on pretty much everything you've said. Sadly people get their panties in a wad because your opinion comes across as fact. I get what you are saying. None the less I honestly do agree with you.

When people think Stern can simply replace a DMD with a drop in LCD like replacing a CRT with an LCD that couldn't be any more further from the truth. It's flat out too costly to use LCD's and all the other shit that goes along with it ... Stern himself has admitted this. Too costly - dead issue people.
Wish in one hand shit in the other.

Here is the thing... It is Stern's opinion that an LCD is too costly, and therefore it will never happen at Stern. That in no way actually means that adding an LCD is too costly.. It just means they don't know how to do it, and not that it cannot be done. I agree that there is no difference in the outcome, with the exception of me not liking Stern. My Steve Kirk designed classics aside of course.

And I can't believe you said DMD animation was a wow factor.

DMD pixelated animation = the suck
Cheesy music = more suck
Low quality audio samples = even more suck
Stobe lights = the cheese
Cluttered playfield = extra suck
Crappy theme tie in = extra cheese

So what was this Spanish company making pins? Maybe I need one of those.

 

[pcjohn]

Yup, take a look at the new locking mechanism for the front bar.

Wait, what mechanism ?

Fact - Gary Stern has admitted that he no longer caters to the pinheads. His two sole objectives are to generate new pin blood and reduce cost.

 

[LyonsArcade]

sigh.

Do you guys remember how to have fun playing a game? Ever think maybe you're a little too hard to please? Are you really bitching about the latch that holds the lockdown bar on?

 

[sosage]

Stern is not above criticism just because they are the only pinball manufacturer in town. I don't know why that is such a difficult concept to come to terms with.

 

[pcjohn]

sigh.

Do you guys remember how to have fun playing a game? Ever think maybe you're a little too hard to please? Are you really bitching about the latch that holds the lockdown bar on?

I'm not bitching, I just think it's cheap.

JD

 

[AtariShag]

So what was this Spanish company making pins? Maybe I need one of those.

It's called Marsaplay. They have re-done an old Spanish pin called Canasta that is called New Canasta, it has an LCD screen in the marquee box and LEDs on the playfield. I wonder if they will be making anything else beyond this, it would be cool to see, even if the game will be mostly limited to Spain

http://marsaplay.com/

 

[gamefixer]

Hey, I see that some people are bashing the Avatar pin, just be grateful that there's ANY pinball machines being made... and we forget that these are meant, for the most part, to be put in a public place to draw attention and earn money.. and this one fits that bill for sure. I don't think they're catering to the home collectors as much... Even though that's probably decent (10% perhaps?) percentage of their sales.

A lot of home collectors claim that the percentage in closer to 50%. I've worked for two Stern distribs so I can tell you for sure that its no where near 50%, maybe 10-20% but thats about it.

Matt

EDIT: 3 Stern Distribs...

 

[VectorJunkie]

It's called Marsaplay. They have re-done an old Spanish pin called Canasta that is called New Canasta, it has an LCD screen in the marquee box and LEDs on the playfield. I wonder if they will be making anything else beyond this, it would be cool to see, even if the game will be mostly limited to Spain

http://marsaplay.com/

Thanks for the link. I want one of those... Wow a non-licensed theme, LCD display, LED lighting, and elimination of much of the play field wiring... That must of cost a fortune!

If I get to go to Barcelona again next February, finding and playing one of these will be on the top of my list.

 

[sosage]

Thanks for the link. I want one of those... Wow a non-licensed theme, LCD display, LED lighting, and elimination of much of the play field wiring... That must of cost a fortune!

Stop complaining. Be happy that you get DMD's at all ingrate!



Did I just see that thing take a picture of the high scorer, store it and put it on the LCD? LOL! That's cool as hell.

Maybe Ritchie should learn spanish and give Stern a run for its money.

 

[VectorJunkie]

Stop complaining. Be happy that you get DMD's at all ingrate!



Did I just see that thing take a picture of the high scorer, store it and put it on the LCD? LOL! That's cool as hell.

Maybe Ritchie should learn spanish and give Stern a run for its money.

Yeah, it has a camera that can take a picture of the player.

 

[vicjw66]

That looks like an old 70's pin revamped. I would rather play the old 70's pin unvamped or else a new pin.