Atari System II Paperboy interrupt failure

[bakerhillpins]

I've never encountered a situation where a POKEY wasn't a POKEY, but someone else may have. So as far as I know they swap everywhere.

I swapped those in with no change.

At this point I'd be less likely to believe all 4 POKEYs are dead and that it's something on the board. We apparently need to get you more Atari games so you have something to test POKEYs in!

 

[bobbyb13]

Maybe I need to send this CS set to somebody who knows what they are doing to give me a known baseline!

I'll try to look through the schematic later if I have time today and see if I can figure something out about Pokey function.
If I'm not smart enough yet to do anything else at least I can verify trace continuity I guess.
Maybe after I have driven all over the island today!

 

[Jaydon]

I have a CS board set also but that is entirely non functional at this point- it does however have Pokeys (which also might be dead) in it.
I swapped those in with no change.
Does any version Pokey work with any board?
One pair is OG Atari and the other pair is some other proper designation # that ends in -03.
I don't recall seeing a way to test a Pokey anywhere but I should search.

I saw your socket caveat from your thread of working through that pile of rotten SysII boards you had @bakerhillpins but these LOOK ok. No corrosion anyway, but your comment about wiper tension does have me wondering.
Maybe I should swap these sockets out anyway now that my soldering doesn't look like butcher's work.

And as ridiculous as it sounds that is actually a 29" in there @KaBoom1701 !
Now you can tell how wide I made the cabinet.
The first few years I was at this scratch build stuff I could only find huge ass tubes out here and had to make everything assuming it would wind up with a 29" in it.

Oh, the geography of it all.

Now that I ran it again with @Jaydon 's audio clip in my head I recognize that I have a perfect Yamaha test, absolutley nothing from either Pokey test, squat from controller test, and when it loops through to the 6502 test the sequence hangs on a tone labeled DF.
And it is a really annoying tone after a few seconds.

More detective work to do- and I have a really busy week unfortunately!

I just want to make sure I understand what's going on. In test mode, you hear the Yamaha chimes, but no Pokey chords, nor the speech test.
Then you press the right throw button to go to the control test. Are the controls non-responsive in the test mode?
Then you press the right throw button again to go to the Alphanumeric test and all the rest of the tests. When it gets to the sound test again, then it hangs on tone DF? Does DF show up on the screen?

What happens in game mode? Does the game play with no sound?

 

[bobbyb13]

You are describing my symptoms exactly.
I get the full Yamaha scale but not a peep during either of the Pokey tests and no speech sounds either.

Both buttons on the controller work and advancing through the test menu I get no response from the handlebar pots- ever.
It advances through the motion object test and all the other graphical things just fine until it gets to the 6502 check.
It displays that it is playing sound DF, which it does play a single tone, and then hangs on it.
To run it in regular gameplay I get no sound at all although there was a hint of a crash sound once and the controller doesn't work, although both throw buttons do, to both select a game and to throw newspapers.
If my Pokeys aren't dead then there is certainly something wrong with what sends them information or with whatever receives information from them.
Hoping for a chance at looking at it tonight.

 

[Jaydon]

You are describing my symptoms exactly.
I get the full Yamaha scale but not a peep during either of the Pokey tests and no speech sounds either.

Both buttons on the controller work and advancing through the test menu I get no response from the handlebar pots- ever.
It advances through the motion object test and all the other graphical things just fine until it gets to the 6502 check.
It displays that it is playing sound DF, which it does play a single tone, and then hangs on it.
To run it in regular gameplay I get no sound at all although there was a hint of a crash sound once and the controller doesn't work, although both throw buttons do, to both select a game and to throw newspapers.
If my Pokeys aren't dead then there is certainly something wrong with what sends them information or with whatever receives information from them.
Hoping for a chance at looking at it tonight.

So after going through the test menu once, it starts over again with the Yamaha test. But on this pass, you don't hear the back and forth Yamaha tone, but a single tone with DF displayed on the screen?
Very strange. I have never seen that. I was thinking that maybe it was a ROM error on the CPU board. But if the game is playing, that is probably unlikely.

I'm wondering if there are 2 separate issues here (the controller issue and the sound issue), or a single issue that combines these two symptoms. It would easy to figure out. Have checked the controller pot values at the board to make sure they change @ J102 when you move the controller?
Also, I thought you stated earlier that the IC @5B was a T-11. Did you install a 6502?

 

[bobbyb13]

A new 6502 is in there now.
All new ROMs on both boards.
There has never been any signal change from the contoller pots at all, under test or in game, as if it wasn't even connected. But both buttons work.
The intersection of no pot function and no sound (but I know the Yamaha chip and sound amp circuit obviously work) would be the Pokeys- from my current understanding of it anyway.

What I wonder at this point is did having a T-11 where the 6502 should've been roast something that is creating this issue.
Based on what I see here is that it could have run the +5V at pin 8 of that socket to pin 20 out (since it appears to me that the T-11 has those pins bonded) and maybe that killed the LS244 at 4A?
I don't understand the current flow yet but it bears looking at I think.

And I think the things immediately connected to the 6502 are ICs at 4H, 4 A/B, 5D, and 6D.
Since I don't understand how this 6502 processor works at all yet I will just probe those ICs and see what I find.

Mostly because what I see on page 4B here is stratospherically over my head at the moment.

 

[bakerhillpins]

Would also explain why my controller isn't registering if I have dead Pokeys.

Both buttons on the controller work and advancing through the test menu I get no response from the handlebar pots- ever.

So, I'm a gonna make a left hand turn from the right hand lane here... So the inputs do work? And..... that's what I get for being old (bad memory) and not reading the schematics first. The player controls on System 2 games do not go through the POKEYs. Directly onto the 6502 bus. Buttons work so skip the below it's for ref only.



And your left right motion is via the ADC... so time to look at the voltages and the ADC chip. I'd start by measuring +5v and GND at the POTs on the CP. If those are good then validate the signals at the POT inputs on P102 are changing when you wiggle the controller. If not work back to the controller along the harness to see where it's bad.



If that's all good validate that something makes it to the input pins of the ADC. (You could pull the ADC and put your meter on the socket pins). Also, you mentioned you have a 2nd CS board so you could move the ADC over (I believe it's socketed???)

 

[bobbyb13]

Ooo...
This is good stuff.
Thanks @bakerhillpins
I'll check this later today.

 

[bobbyb13]

You are entirely correct @bakerhillpins , I had the controller pots wired wrong.
At least that is working fine in game now for a bit before it gets flaky like a lot of other things.
It seems to calibrate and function ok, but oddly I still can't scroll choices in the menu.
Buttons still work, except it won't coin up.
It starts up showing 56 credits already and occassionally I see "Free Play" but I can't change any of the settings anyway.

Well at this point I have tried swapping all the socketed chips and have only seen minor changes that appear to have more to do with running the machine longer than anything else I've done.
The more I let it run the more frequently I hear a sound every now and again.
A newspaper hitting something, crash sound, bouncing off a curb, scoring a mailbox, breaking a window, engine noise, even a hint of cowbell and a coin tone.
But very sporadic partial sounds and other things are getting really weird.
After a bit of play there is a location disconnect between where paperboy appears to be and where the papers get thrown from.
I've even crashed by running into a stack of newspapers.

I checked continuity until my eyes started crossing.
Need to learn more about reading schematics!

 

[bakerhillpins]

Buttons still work, except it won't coin up.

Different circuit: Use the logic probe to test inputs 11/13 on 8F and see if your coin door wiring is good.

It starts up showing 56 credits already and occassionally I see "Free Play" but I can't change any of the settings anyway.

So the option switches DO go through the POKEYs. Look at the options and try changing an option on either POKEY/switch pack. See if one option switch set sticks or doesn't. If one side sticks then concentrate on the other. If both don't work then maybe something weird on the bus or control logic. (it gets more difficult to locate)

 

[bobbyb13]

Coin path is simple enough for me to check!
Man, there are a lot of those LSxxx chips on this board.

The only setting I can change is the one the screens pops up with already selected since the controller doesn't move anything.
But like the rest of the test loop the left button works fine and it toggles the two choices.

Controller now works everywhere but the test menu choices selection process.
Buttons work everywhere.
Strange to me as I still don't fully comprehend yet what the paths are.

I'll have to hope Chad gets more free time to come back and hold my hand through some more troubleshooting.
Maybe my scope will even work this time around.
I'd be calling you but for the timezone issue!

All the intermittent failure/function still makes me want to get known good Pokeys in here.
I think it will help me immensely in troubleshooting a lot of the rest.

It all makes me want to spend the $$ on one of those Backbit testers.
Or maybe I just buy new Pokeys?!


What is the latest greatest Pokey replacement anyway?

 

[bakerhillpins]

The only setting I can change is the one the screens pops up with already selected since the controller doesn't move anything.
But like the rest of the test loop the left button works fine and it toggles the two choices.

LOL, no I meant changing the actual dip switches that go into the POKEYs. Not the settings in the self test. LOL See the schematics, they show the dip switch bank locations.

 

[bobbyb13]

Aha...!
I wondered what those were all about but have been afraid to touch them.
One has a pretty crappy solder joint on the backside and both banks have a film over them still.
Oh, the learning process-