Asteroids Deluxe plays blind

Slug54

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Hey guys,
I picked up an Asteroids Deluxe upright cab and it powers on, coins up and plays but nothing on the monitor. There is no neck glow and the red led on the the monitor board is on.

So I disconnected the 15 pin connector on the power supply and started checking voltages.
The un regulated DC read read 13.5 volts
what should have been 36VAC read 15V
The 6.3VAC read 0V
The 80VAC read around 25V
The 65VAC read around 20V

The marquee bulb glows a little in the ends but not much.
If anyone can help me get this going I would really appreciate it.
It seems like this points to a bad transformer but I didnt think they ever really went bad and I am getting good voltage to the game board so it is at least partially working.
This power supply does not have the voltage selection plugs on it the connector for them is not installed.

If anyone has any ideas please let me know.
Thank You.
 
There is no neck glow and the red led on the the monitor board is on.

what should have been 36VAC read 15V
The 6.3VAC read 0V
The 80VAC read around 25V
The 65VAC read around 20V

The marquee bulb glows a little in the ends but not much.

No neck glow and 0V where there should be 6.3VAC indicate you have no heater voltage. You will never have a picture with no heater (aka filament). As they are absent at the connector, the thing to do is check all of your fuses in the fuse block. Do not "check" them visually... actually pull them out and check continuity. Also, check for corrosion of the fuse holders.

You are correct, xformers rarely go bad. I suspect you may be making your measurements incorrectly. You AC measurements: were those made between matching legs of the AC power, or each leg individually relative to GND?

Oh, and regarding the marquee: replace the starter (FS-2, Home Depot or Lowes for a buck or two). If that doesn't do it, replace the ballast.

PS--B&W vector monitors often have bad solder joints at the headers, that just need re-soldering.
PPS--attaching or linking photos is almost always helpful
 
Agree with DarrenF. No 6.3v will mean no neck glow, which means no picture. The LED being on means that the spotkiller is active, which happens when there is no video signal being sent to the monitor. Very first thing to do is pull the deflection board and reflow all the headers.

It's amazing how gnarly that header solder gets. I've fixed many boards just by reflowing them. I fixed one just the other night — it was so bad that the whole pin assembly lifted partially out of the PCB when I pulled on the connector. Clean that stuff up and you're likely to have a picture.
 
Hey guys,
Thanks for the quick replys.
Darren I was metering the supply using the test points indicated in this thread:

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1073965

I just pulled the 15 pin connector on the brick and put the test leads directly in the connector I thought I was measuring each leg on it's own not relative to ground.
I did check all the fuses and did a continuity test through the fuse holders and they all checked good. There was one fuse/fuse holder with no connections to it but it also was not labeled and there were no connections available to connect to it.
I will try to take some pictures tonight.
If you have a good way/place to check the voltages please let me know.

I will pull the monitor and re-solder the headers tonight and let you know how it goes.

Thanks for your help.
 
Darren I was metering the supply using the test points indicated in this thread:

http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?p=1073965

I just pulled the 15 pin connector on the brick and put the test leads directly in the connector I thought I was measuring each leg on it's own not relative to ground.
I did check all the fuses and did a continuity test through the fuse holders and they all checked good. There was one fuse/fuse holder with no connections to it but it also was not labeled and there were no connections available to connect to it.
I will try to take some pictures tonight.
If you have a good way/place to check the voltages please let me know.

I will pull the monitor and re-solder the headers tonight and let you know how it goes.

Well, that post at least does describe properly testing the AC lines relative to one another vice relative to GND. However, he appears to be mistaken on two matters: The 80VAC and the 65VAC. Those are for older Asteroids power bricks designed to supply G05-801 monitors, IIRC. I just looked at the shematics (all 3 printings) for Asteroids Deluxe, and NONE of them have any 85VAC output. Instead pins 10, 11, 12 are center-tapped 60 VAC, and so are pins 13, 14 & 15. So substitute this measurement (using the same diagram, of course):

Meter set to 200VAC (or closest range available, if not an autoranging meter)
red lead to pin 10
black lead to pin 12
(doesn't really matter red/black, they could be reversed for AC measurements)
should read roughly 60VAC

Meter set to 200VAC (or closest range available, if not an autoranging meter)
red lead to pin 13
black lead to pin 15
(doesn't really matter red/black, they could be reversed for AC measurements)
should read roughly 60VAC

Ahh!... looks like this was discovered and corrected by the poster in post #13 of that same thread...

I really recommend anyone take a few minutes to learn to follow a wiring diagram, rather than relying solely on various stuff posted all over the interwebs. The diagram in question is available in PDF here: http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Arcade_Atari_Kee/Asteroids_Deluxe/Asteroids_Deluxe_DP-165-3rd-01A.pdf Personally, I'd much rather help someone understand a schematic or wiring diagram ("teach them to fish") than instruct them on how test the voltages in their game ("give them a fish").

Anyhow, the reading you report are curious, at best. The presence of 13VDC indicates that at least that secondary of the xformer is fine, and the primary side must be OK. The absence of 6.3VAC & and load 36VAC are head-scratchers, as a total absence (in the context of a known-working primary) would seem to indicate an open secondary or a wiring fault elsewhere on the secondary side (including an open fuse or bad fuse holder). The low 36VAC is perhaps even more curious.

All taken together, the most likely explanation (IMHO, no offense intended) is measurement error. Make sure your meter has good batteries; make sure you're using the correct mode (AC/DC) for each measurement; make sure you're on the right range, and are intpreting the reading correctly (i.e. not reporting 15V when it's 15 millivolts); make sure you are counting/locating the pins correctly; make sure you're on the correct connector :)
 
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Marked this one to follow and educate myself. Thanks for great post DarrenF!
 
Ok guys, making a little progress.
Checked the volltages on the 15 pin connector of the power supply with a different meter and they all look good. Sorry for leading this down the wrong road not sure if it was the cheap harbor freight meter or low batteries in the cold but it looks like we have good power at the supply.
I pulled the monitor out of the machine for inspection and just like you guys said the header connectors were following off the board.I resoldered all the connectors and a few other joints that looked bad. I powered it up and I now get tube glow and a thin horizontal line. I can see movement in the line as the game runs so it looks like the verticle is just collapsed.
The monitor is an electrohome G05-802.
I did not want to leave the monitor on long in this condition and I am not yet familliar with where all the adjustment pots are.
I will try adjusting those tomorrow and I also want to test the large metal transistors that are mounted to the metal frame as these are the ones that plug into the connectors that were falling off the board.

I will keep you posted and if anyone has any suggestions let me know.
 
OK, good. Power problem is sorted out, and the monitor mostly works, and it appears that the PCB is alive too... all excellent news.

So, now you have a vertical deflection problem. You can follow along with the schematics in the manual here: http://arcarc.xmission.com/PDF_Moni...Electrohome G05-802 G05-805 Monochrome XY.pdf

Step zero is to check the fuses on the monitor board, esp "F600". Should be a 2A. Again, pull it and check continuity.

Step 1, re-check all of your soldering work, and look for any other headers (anything a plug connects to) on the board, and resolder them... sometimes the cracks are difficult to see w/o magnification. Best to just re-solder 'em all IMO.

Step 2, swap the horiz and vert deflection transistors (the "bottle cap" looking ones mounted to the frame). Be sure to exchange the 2N3792s with each other, and 2N3716s with each other, but DON'T mix them up. If you then have a thin vertical line, your problem is the xistors. If you still have a horizontal line, your problem is elsewhere (yoke, wiring, monitor PCB, game PCB...)

Alternatively, you could test the xistors. Remember, one is PNP and the other NPN, so test accordingly. Personally, I can never remember how they're supposed to test (all the different combinations of base, collector, emitter, which lead is which on a TO-3 package, etc.) so it's easier to me to just swap them than look up the transistor testing protocol.
 
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Fuses on monitor board all check out ok.
Double checked all my solder work,All connectors have been resoldered on this board fixed a few more joints that looked sketchy.
Cleaned up an ugly repair someone had made to the solder side of one of the connectors it was not connector P600 it was P700.

No change in the symptoms. I will try swapping the transistors tomorrow and see if the problem goes to the other axis.
do you think I will need to clean up and apply new heatsink compound to them?
If so I will have to pick some up. I have a small amount here but not enough to do all 4.

Thanks
 
Major progress on this tonight.
swapped the horizontal and verticle deflection transistors with each other and re-tested and there was no change in the symptoms still just a thin horizontal line.
I pulled the monitor board and went through it again this time in the house with really good light and a magnifier. This board had been crudely repaired and damaged by someone a long time ago soldering on it with what appears to be a trigger style soldering gun that was way too big and way too hot. there are serveral places where the traces and solder pads have been burned off the board and then crudely repaired using very bad soldering techniques and the wrong type of solder. Ive repaired most of these but on further inspection I found the trace leading away from Pin 5 of connector P701 was burned and broken.
This happens to be what connects the Verticle deflection transistors to the Y yoke.
So I repaired that trace and re-tested and it works! The screen is a little jumpy and I have little faint lines connecting all the objects on the screen but other than that It looks really great. I am not familliar with how to adjust these monitors so I am reading through the BW Vector monitor FAQ to learn a little about these monitors.
If anyone has any suggestions on how to adjust and tune these let me know.
Darren,Thank you all your help and patience, your knowledge of these machines is really impressive.
One last thing,I have not seen a working Asteroids or Asteroids Deluxe since about 1983 in the arcades. This thing looks amazing I did not realize all the magic that goes into these, The mirror image on the monitor screen,The reflecting mirror and back light along with the 3d background graphics and the blue filter plastic.Thanks again Darren and Ieure for all the help.
I forgot to mention that this was my first time posting in these forums after a year or 2 of lurking and it turned out to be a really educational experience for me.
Thanks
-Slug
 
Good work finding and fixing the PCB damage! Yeah, any time I see evidence of previous repair work, I zero in on that area; as it was often done poorly. Sounds like you're well on your way to being an Asteroids expert on your own.

As far as the faint lines connecting all the vectors, that's (hopefully) just a contrast/brightness adjustment issue. First cleaning everything (monitor face, mirror, bezel). I've had good resutls with the procedure described in the "The Black & White Vector Monitor FAQ and Guide" document (google it). Just turn down both brightness and contrast pots fully, then turn up the brightness until you can just barely see vectors, finally adjust contrast up until the vectors look good and bright (but no so high as you see the "connecting" lines). Hopefully that'll fix it for you.

About the "jumpiness"... my best guess is old/dirty linearity pots (R600 & R700). You might try giving them some swift turning, and maybe some compressed air blow-out, or even some electrical contact cleaner... and see if that improves it. Ultimately, the pots likely need replacement. Or.... it might be another problem (some other loose/poor connection somewhere).

Oh, and welcome to the forum. :)
 
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