ArcadeSD Multigame PCB (Vertical Mode) Review

I can shoot some video too. Finally figured out a way to mount my camera and be able to play and record with a reasonably straight-on shot of the screen at the same time. (My test cab is one of those japanese Jaleco Pony sit-at cabs with the monitor at an angle... Makes it interesting to try to get a good shot of the screen!)

-Clay
 
As requested... though not all horizontals are represented.... just most. Also, the monitor is a G07 with a beat tube & persistent color issues at the top that never seems to degauss out...also note that the cardboard bezel is covering about 1/4" or so of the left side of the image you see...

ASD_HORIZSCREEN.jpg


I also installed and tested Frenzy today (obviously from the screenshot above). Unfortunately the high scores don't work (yet). Also, it MAY be missing sounds (I am not 100% certain as frankly, I've never played Frenzy). I say that because I'd imagine there is a death sound? Not so here... unless it sounds exactly like one of the robots firing (does it?). Also, fire sounds go silent from time to time if you try to play "too fast"... does the original hardware do that? Still a fun game... not sure why it wasn't as popular as Berzerk.

EDIT: I just watched a youtube video of the gameplay in MAME. Evidently there aren't missing sounds because the death sound DOES sound very much like a robot firing... and I saw at least a couple times where the player fired and no sound came out so it looks like that is the norm. My guess is 1 channel sound and the sounds colliding neg `em both out or some such business...
 
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As requested... though not all horizontals are represented.... just most. Also, the monitor is a G08 with a beat tube & persistent color issues at the top that never seems to degauss out...

ASD_HORIZSCREEN.jpg

How are you running this on a color vector monitor???:confused::confused:
 
With your setup having both trackball and joystick, are all the games controllable by both? Or does it have a setting where you can program it for which one you want to work for each game? I'm thinking of doing the same kind of setup and also trying to decide whether to go with a 4 or 8 way stick.
 
I do believe they are all controllable by both... I will check tonight... I know the AS was that way... The pacs are actually sort of fun with the trackball for a while.

:)
 
EDIT: I just watched a youtube video of the gameplay in MAME. Evidently there aren't missing sounds because the death sound DOES sound very much like a robot firing... and I saw at least a couple times where the player fired and no sound came out so it looks like that is the norm. My guess is 1 channel sound and the sounds colliding neg `em both out or some such business...

Yeah, I'm actually putting that on the buglist just to see if there's a sound priority system we're missing. (It seems like the player death sound gets 'skipped' sometimes and I suspect there's just something else interrupting it. It seems like player death should always have priority-- but I could be wrong. I need to look at the hardware and stuff again.)

-Clay
 
Here's a little video of the horizontal games running in vertical mode. I missed a couple after having seem Jon's screenshots, but I got most of them.



-Clay
 
Just finished a quick run through in horizontal mode.

Issues noted so far:
1) Got the 3 errors everyone else is with PacNPal, Galaga2K and GalagaEF -- 3 files missing. Had a complete MAME circa .128 that was rom checked. Wonder where these 3 files are?

2) Switched to the folder with roms from MenuSys from the AS board thinking I could find them there. Changed folder using browse then reselected show all then show avaialble. Then things started going funky. Each time I hit Validate, a random game was claimed to be missing. Yet all the files were already written as G3R's on the card. Then when I stepped through to the final screen, it claimed it couldn't write anything to the SD card for game settings. Closed and reopened and this time didn't change the folder and things worked just fine.

3) Sound is off/missing in Burgertime (horizontal mode). Most notably the bonus pepper 'fruit' appearing sound is only 1 or 2 notes instead of the 5 to 6 that I recall from my real board.

4) Vertical overscan is significant in some games. I had optimized my monitor for an original Robotron PCB, and had been running the AS board in it. While Robotron fully fills the screen vertically, a few other games, notably the Universal verticals (MrDo/Do Castle) in horizontal mode have text clipped off screen. If I adjust that in, it will make the williams games an inch or two smaller diagonally. Not a big deal, since I don't believe you mess around with changing the H/V refresh rates, just try to pixel map in the available space.

5) Horizontal underscan is significant in some games. Moon Patrol, Mario Bros had large black borders on the left/right that I was not expecting. Again, I guess we can't be expecting a AdvanceMame with all the optimized resolution/refresh tweaks.


Suggestion:
When pressing the P1 button 1 in the menu, it jumps into the demo of the game. However it starts at the initial boot/title. It would be nice if the "demo" mode started at the point the game is actually starting the attract of the game screen instead of the same entry point of the title.


I've only played with it about 5-10 minutes, expect to get more time this weekend. Happy so far, and hope a few of the issues can be addressed, and definitely looking forward to the October update :)

Thanks!
 
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Thanks for your help FrizzleFried. I finally got it up and running with your help & cdjump's help. I had to make a trip to Mike Roma's house who make it happen. I ran through all the games real fast and I noticed (not sure if its just mine) but on the Carnival game the bullets & game play freezes up. Also notice the color of the sky in Super Mario is to light. Almost looks white. One last thing I guess for Clay. Can you run all the games through something to make all the games the same or close to the same volume?
 
Thanks for your help FrizzleFried. I finally got it up and running with your help & cdjump's help. I had to make a trip to Mike Roma's house who make it happen. I ran through all the games real fast and I noticed (not sure if its just mine) but on the Carnival game the bullets & game play freezes up. Also notice the color of the sky in Super Mario is to light. Almost looks white. One last thing I guess for Clay. Can you run all the games through something to make all the games the same or close to the same volume?

If you want to report bugs, shoot an email to arcadesd (at) gamma-arcade.com since I'm not always going to spot them in threads here on KLOV. (I'm checking carefully now just 'cause it's newly shipping and bound to be new things found, but over time we'll rely on the email method more.)

Colors are tricky-- they vary from monitor to monitor (depending on gun balancing/aging and in the case of the Nintendo stuff usually a video inverter) so we get pretty close based on the color proms. I might have a SMB board to check against. (It's funny though-- I've dialed games in before by measuring the color levels on a scope and setting ours exactly right only to have people complain that they aren't right after the change. Sometimes eyeballing it is better! ;-)

I haven't run across any Carnival issues, but again-- if you hit a bug and can replicate it shoot an email with the what/where/how details and we'll check it out. (If we can reproduce it obviously we have a better chance to fix it.) That having been said, most of the code is *pretty* well rung out since it's been used on the Arcadeshop board and other platforms since ~2003 in some cases.)

Volume equalization will be "ongoing". Scramble in particular has some level issues-- we're messing with implementing the filters on the Konami sound boards and that's tweaking their overall volume a bit. If worse comes to worse we might just have a per-game 'adjustment' to balance things out. (ie, you have a 'global' volume, but then can adjust on a game by game basis per your own preferences.)

-Clay
 
1) Got the 3 errors everyone else is with PacNPal, Galaga2K and GalagaEF -- 3 files missing. Had a complete MAME circa .128 that was rom checked. Wonder where these 3 files are?

I'll investigate P-n-P. We're looking for checksums, so what happened on one other one was that there was apparently a MAME redump that changed a couple bytes (probably inconsequential to actual operation) but was enough to throw off the checksum. The 2K and EF variations were graphics hacks ("2000" and "Terrorist Fighter"-- they might be in the Misfit Mame stuff?)

2) Switched to the folder with roms from MenuSys from the AS board thinking I could find them there. Changed folder using browse then reselected show all then show avaialble. Then things started going funky. Each time I hit Validate, a random game was claimed to be missing. Yet all the files were already written as G3R's on the card. Then when I stepped through to the final screen, it claimed it couldn't write anything to the SD card for game settings. Closed and reopened and this time didn't change the folder and things worked just fine.

Curious-- there probably wasn't a lot of testing when it comes to changing directories on the fly. It does try to keep track of some stuff from the directory scan so that it doesn't have to do it every time-- maybe switching directories confused it. If it works OK with a restart of the app, I'd say to do that as a workaround for now. (I don't think it occurred to us that people would have more than one ROMs directory.)

3) Sound is off/missing in Burgertime (horizontal mode). Most notably the bonus pepper 'fruit' appearing sound is only 1 or 2 notes instead of the 5 to 6 that I recall from my real board.

I'll throw it on the buglist. That's one of those games that's been implemented for years, so if people don't complain we tend to think we have it right. I have an original machine for that to check if need be.

4) Vertical overscan is significant in some games. I had optimized my monitor for an original Robotron PCB, and had been running the AS board in it. While Robotron fully fills the screen vertically, a few other games, notably the Universal verticals (MrDo/Do Castle) in horizontal mode have text clipped off screen. If I adjust that in, it will make the williams games an inch or two smaller diagonally. Not a big deal, since I don't believe you mess around with changing the H/V refresh rates, just try to pixel map in the available space.

Vertical timing is pretty close to the AS board. We did have to tighten things up to be compatible with VGA monitors though. There will be a certain amount of compromise necessary however since most games back in the day had wildly different pixelclocks, blanking, etc.-- most people don't have multisync monitors in their machines so the hardware is designed with one scanrate/pixel clock and we don't switch or do anything that'd cause problems with slightly different scan rates on fixed frequency monitors.

5) Horizontal underscan is significant in some games. Moon Patrol, Mario Bros had large black borders on the left/right that I was not expecting. Again, I guess we can't be expecting a AdvanceMame with all the optimized resolution/refresh tweaks.

Again, this is actually the same implementation as the Arcadeshop board-- screen position and whatnot might not be exactly the same as the AS board (and the pixel clock is slightly different-- closer to VGA spec), but it is consistent once it's set. Our video system is 'square pixels'-- so games that used slow pixel clocks to stretch pixels (Moon Patrol, Liberator, Mario Bros., etc.) will have borders just like on the AS board. On the upside, this is also what allows a lot of the otherwise 'horizontal' games to run in 'vertical' mode without losing any pixels.

It is worth noting, however, that a lot of the the original games had really, really horrible centering and blanking intervals. We actually clean those up and position things nicely at least. In horizontal mode, I think Wizard of Wor is the worst-case scenario for screen utilization. Williams games are a close 2nd, but we actually blank their active video area early. (The original Williams hardware showed scratch RAM in the screen raster and you actually had to adjust the h-width and centering to place part of the active scanlines off screen or else you'd have a bar of garbage visible on the right. ;-)

Suggestion:
When pressing the P1 button 1 in the menu, it jumps into the demo of the game. However it starts at the initial boot/title. It would be nice if the "demo" mode started at the point the game is actually starting the attract of the game screen instead of the same entry point of the title.

I'll add this to the feature request list. (that's one of those things that some people like it the way it is and others might not-- probably have to be an option like our "long/short" demo mode settings.)

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback. Hope I'm not coming across as argumentative-- on some topics there's just reasons why it is the way it is and we're not likely to change things. When it comes to bugs and feature requests though we'd always rather hear them than not. Worst case we can't do something or hit the "as close as we can get" wall with it. :) We also need to balance time spent fixing bugs vs. time spent on new titles, so there will be occasions where we shuffle some things off to the low priority bug list and work on new stuff instead.

-Clay
 
I'll investigate P-n-P. We're looking for checksums, so what happened on one other one was that there was apparently a MAME redump that changed a couple bytes (probably inconsequential to actual operation) but was enough to throw off the checksum. The 2K and EF variations were graphics hacks ("2000" and "Terrorist Fighter"-- they might be in the Misfit Mame stuff?)

It was strange that they were in the pack for the AS board and worked for it, but don't work for the ArcadeSD board.


We did have to tighten things up to be compatible with VGA monitors though

I forgot about needing to be VGA compatible now--that will drive some of the other decisions on scan frequencies/base timings, etc. Completely understood. As I said, I realized that some compromises needed to be made since this is a plug-n-play solution, and not the utter hell that (was) AdvanceMame with modelines, finding the 'exact' video card, dealing in slow loading DOS or learning even more unix to work magic with. Spot on graphics to original but not without losing a day of time per game resolution tweaking everything.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback. Hope I'm not coming across as argumentative-- on some topics there's just reasons why it is the way it is and we're not likely to change things.

You're welcome and thanks for taking a look at a couple things. Not argumentative at all--helpful for reminding us that VGA needs to be taken into consideration in development. I presume I'll stumble on a few more asks as I get a chance to play more (and in vertical mode too) this weekend.

But overall--great job. Anxiously awaiting the October update!
 
I finally got the two Galaga hacks (Enduring Freedom and 2000) installed as well as Pac N Pal...

The two Galaga hacks both save high scores... and both mimic the original Galaga in options (fast/normal fire, repeat fire, etc)....

Pac N Pal plays fine... I notice the area in the middle that is supposed to "hide" PAC & PAL (and the ghosts except for their eyes if I remember right) still doesn't (it doesn't on the AS version either) and high scores, unfortunately, aren't saved.
 
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Pac N Pal plays fine... I notice the area in the middle that is supposed to "hide" PAC & PAL (and the ghosts except for their eyes if I remember right) still doesn't (it doesn't on the AS version either) and high scores, unfortunately, aren't saved.

I'll add the 'hole' to the investigation list. Assuming I even remember where my original boardset is! It's been a while since I looked at that one...

...and we'll fix the high scores. I think they're being *recorded*, but just not reloaded properly. I'll check a couple files out and see if I can get some insight on it. It'll be a couple weeks though since my business partner scheduled vacation to coincide with when Darin's out. Should be back at it at the end of the month.

-Clay
 
Seems to still be a few people who haven't been able to locate The Galaga Enduring Freedom / Galaga 2K / PacNPal romsets.

Since there doesn't seem to be anyone who objects, PM me and I'll send you a link to download them. The sets worked for me, your mileage may vary.

Of course... Be sure that you are legally entitled to use the roms before you send me the PM =)

BD
 
I'm inferring this from the above review comments but would appreciate direct confirmation: Does the ASD board work better with an 8-way joystick than the original AS board did? I am using 8-way leafswitch joysticks and some games (the Pacs and especially Bagman) would get stuck in corners a lot. Has anyone used an 8-way with both the old and new AS boards, and can provide a comparison? (My order has been held up so I'm just anxious for info in the meantime!) Thx.
 
I'm inferring this from the above review comments but would appreciate direct confirmation: Does the ASD board work better with an 8-way joystick than the original AS board did? I am using 8-way leafswitch joysticks and some games (the Pacs and especially Bagman) would get stuck in corners a lot. Has anyone used an 8-way with both the old and new AS boards, and can provide a comparison? (My order has been held up so I'm just anxious for info in the meantime!) Thx.


It works the same as the AS board did. I have difficulty with Mr. Do and the Pacs myself. I don't play Bagman.

Switch to 4-way and they play awesome. It's more how each ROM handles inputs rather than how the board does.

Mr. Do for example, push left then push up, if you hit the "angle"... it will keep going left...not up.
 
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