Any games use b/w raster monitor <19” ?

So for the other games mentioned here, do any of those monitors fit my new/added requirement of:
>Black & white raster monitors <19" AND have the same monitor connection as common black & white raster games, I.e. Space Invaders, Atari x's & o's Football, etc.

The manual for Subs states that it will either have a TEC or Zenith 12" monitor. I've not found any evidence of the TEC monitor existing ( though for some reason I though @hisnice had TEC monitors in his, maybe he can check?).

The Zenith model is a D12-DT-1, listed as a 'data display terminal', and has the same 10 pin PCB board connector you see in the Space Zap mini above. Atari used an adapter (part no A034632-01) to convert it into the monitor connection common to their other games.

So, kinda? The adapter is original to the game but not the display.
 
reminds me of an argument i had with a friend over whether the type 30 display on the pdp-1 was actually a vector monitor. his argument was the monitor only produced dots and not vectors therefore its not a vector display. but my argument is this try to replicate a type 30 display without using a vector monitor.

i suppose the "proper" name for both a TV set or any scanning raster monitor is iconoscope.

I've had many discussions debating such terminology. Leonard Herman (author of the series of the "Phoenix: The Fall & Rise of Videogames" books) was my 'debate opponent' for several of those. Herman insisted only home games hooked up to a TV were "video games", because that's what Ralph Baer thought. Baer's reasoning was that home systems like the original Odyssey broadcast a signal (RF), much like how TV stations broadcast video signals, and since TVs were all raster crts, that's what a VIDEO game was. Plus that's why Baer felt William Higinbotham's Tennis For Two - the first real video game - didn't count as being a video game. I asked him, so my Asteroids machine isn't a video game?

"No, it's a vector game."

So, my portable Atari Lynx handheld isn't a video game?

"No, because it uses an LCD screen."

So, if I use a computer with a tube monitor and run an emulator to play Asteroids or any handheld games (GameBoy, Lynx, etc), are they still not video games? What if I hook up my Odyssey to a projector? That's where he got tripped up with his definition of what the definition of a video game was. I said that definition only works pre-1970s, when people didn't have oscilloscopes or flatscreens or any other type of screens in their homes except (raster-based) televisions. I told him Baer's definition was too limited and the definition of what a video game is has changed/evolved. When I told him it's possible to repurpose a raster crt for a vector monitor, he refused to concede. That was just a bridge too far for him.

We should just call everything a videoscope and be done with it! lol

 
So far, I have personally seen the TEC to be used in;
Midway Clowns
Tournament Table
Super Breakout
Fire Truck
Taito T.V. Acrobat for some reason.

All 19/23" though
 
I'm guessing Atari's Indy 800 used modified color TVs as well
It does. It's basically a modified GE console TV chassis. It's a similar setup to the GO2 & 4500, all being delta-gun CRTs. I've had a bunch of issues with GO2s but the GE sets have always worked. Electra Pace Car Pro has a hacked-up color TV in it as well - I forget the make. Never seen inside a Wimbledon but It must be a similar rig.

I always thought Matsushitas were repurposed televisions, and that was later in the game.
Definitely. Those chassis leave most of the "TV part" of the chassis un-stuffed. As we now know, those monitors suck, but my guess was that monitors of any type were in high demand at the time and Atari would just take anything they could get. They tried ADI/Disco around the same time and this maybe why they wanted to develop their own raster monitor with Amplifone. Electrohome couldn't keep up with demand for the GO7, and I'm assuming neither could WG.

I read or heard an interview with somebody from E-home that said they chartered 747s around '81-82 for something like a full year or more to get GO7s to Midway as fast as they could. They couldn't build them fast enough and ended up not making much money because they burned up cash on shipping thinking they'd eventually catch up to the industry, but the industry folded on them instead.

So far, I have personally seen the TEC to be used in;
Midway Clowns
TEC in a Clowns must be a swap?

I've only ever seen them in Atari and only seen Motorolas in any Clowns (or any other Midway). The exception is some Gun Fights had the Midway monitor.
I've definitely had TECs in several FTs, Ultra Tank & Canyon Bomber; and Super Breakout and Tourney Table also ring a bell. I've definiterly had SBs with XMs in them though. I think my Subs has TECs in it? but I haven't been in that thing in so long I don't even remember.

TECs always seem to have issues and they tend to need nearly everything to be checked out before a power-up, like the M5000s and their drifting carbon comp resistors. The film caps on TECs love to fail and they're not great build quality overall, but they're generally not too hard to bring back from the dead at least.

Those monitors in SE & SZ minis also seem to suck. I don't think I've ever had one that didn't need work, and I have a SZ mini right now with a dead monitor that I need to spend some time on.

Joe, what's the reason for the question? Just scratching a curiosity itch?

GE monitor:
indy6.jpg
 
@Dillweed , yes TM-620 (19") and TM-623 (21") exist and were original options Canyon Bomber, Avalanche, Drag Race, Super Bug, Star Ship 1, etc.

I think my Subs has TECs in it?

I thought maybe Atari planned to have these built to save $$ (they seemed to be the only people buying monitors from TEC Videoelectronics ) but didn't bother when Subs sunk at the arcades. I've not seen a manual or model number listed anywhere. If they were made they might fit Joe's criteria.
 
Joe, what's the reason for the question? Just scratching a curiosity itch?
Messing around with a parted out Space Invaders and was looking for a smaller footprint in the testing area. Got me thinking about it and I couldn't come up with a <19" example.

I tried adapting the situation to a Wells K7000, but I couldn't make it work (if someone has done this, would like to know exactly how you wired it up).
 
Messing around with a parted out Space Invaders and was looking for a smaller footprint in the testing area. Got me thinking about it and I couldn't come up with a <19" example.

I tried adapting the situation to a Wells K7000, but I couldn't make it work (if someone has done this, would like to know exactly how you wired it up).
On the monitor tie RGB and c sync together. Now connect it to the video wire on your space invaders harness. Connect monitor ground to video ground
 
You can also use a 19" TV. One with a video rca jack. Not all but most TV sets will turn on if you short the power button contact. Some have an auto power on setting and others will not power on until you let go of the power button. In that situation you can use a capacitor in series with a relay coil. Connect the capacitor 1000uf ish and one side of the coil to 12v at boot the capacitor will begin to charge closing the relay and once charged it will turn the relay off. Use the switched contacts to control the power button input on the TV.
 
Messing around with a parted out Space Invaders and was looking for a smaller footprint in the testing area. Got me thinking about it and I couldn't come up with a <19" example.

I tried adapting the situation to a Wells K7000, but I couldn't make it work (if someone has done this, would like to know exactly how you wired it up).

You wire the video output to 1 color and the sync going into the summer to sync.
This question is so 30 years ago.
 
On the monitor tie RGB and c sync together. Now connect it to the video wire on your space invaders harness. Connect monitor ground to video ground
Since monitors don't really have a specific "c sync" pin, which sync pin -V, -H, +V or +H?
FYI, I tried them all and none worked for me. I obviously have some other problem. But I would like to know which is the proper sync pin to use.
 
You wire the video output to 1 color and the sync going into the summer to sync.
This question is so 30 years ago.
Yes, it is an old question. I tried that and it didn't work for me. So I really wasn't asking a 30 year old question, I was asking a completely different question, more a trivia question (b/w <19").
 
Yes, it is an old question. I tried that and it didn't work for me.
Then you did it wrong.... I've done exactly that to put dozens of different B&W boards on my (JAMMA) test bench.

So I really wasn't asking a 30 year old question, I was asking a completely different question, more a trivia question (b/w <19").
Hint:
I answered that one too.
 
Since monitors don't really have a specific "c sync" pin, which sync pin -V, -H, +V or +H?
FYI, I tried them all and none worked for me. I obviously have some other problem. But I would like to knowaVi which is the proper sync pin to use.

Most monitors are more than happy to work with -csync going to -hsync... a few more need -csync going to -vsync as well.
A tiny fraction need a sync separator to covert ~csync into ~hsync and ~vsync -- but that doesn't really matter since if you go 1 stage back into the video summer you'll find +/- separate syncs.
 
a sync separator circuit is nearly always built in like spathe said ^^^^. but if you are having trouble you can make your own. The k7000 will work as is. 1740961915085.jpeg

If you are needing a test rig built maybe I can help? I have made a few in my day. 1000002102.jpg1000002103.jpg
 
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