Any games use b/w raster monitor <19” ?

Except monitors as we know it didn't exist back then. which is why they were referred to as TVs, because that's what they were.
the TV in pong has the tuner disabled therefore it can no longer be used as a TV and can only be used as a MONITOR just like the monitors we know of today. Yes monitors as we know them existed back then. A TV by its very definition is a type of monitor.
believe it or not even a teletype machine is also technically considered a monitor.
 
Monitors start with the Motorola XM500. If it's a modified for composite television, it was still originally made to be a consumer television.

The earliest known use I can think of that uses an XM500 is Midway's Leader from '73.
 
Monitors start with the Motorola XM500. If it's a modified for composite television, it was still originally made to be a consumer television.
there are also some g07 monitors that were originally designed as a color tv. the tuner parts were cut off at the factory and the pcb is about 2'' wider than a standard g07
 
there are also some g07 monitors that were originally designed as a color tv. the tuner parts were cut off at the factory and the pcb is about 2'' wider than a standard g07
Jason is certainly familiar with this, but all the early color monitors were TV-derivatives. He's taking about the GO7-CAO that was found in Monte Carlo and a couple other games, and is a hack of a JVC TV chassis that was further refined into the GO7-CBO.

I don't know where the WG4500 and the GO2 came from, but the WG 4600 came from a TV set made by a company called Teknika. They can be found in Fire One and Star Fire, and still have all the RF stuff installed but bypassed and modded to accept RGBHV. It would be cool to hear the orgin about all these things; who knows if Exidy sourced & modded it and then WG saw it and did the work to turn it into a purpose-built monitor. Or if it was always WG behind it all from the start and the 4600 wasn't ready yet. The WG 4900 was also a Teknika design, AFAIK.

Maybe the XMs also had roots in a TV somewhere? But those monitors were developed for data displays for computers and aerospace, as I understood it. Ball Brothers (an aerospace firm) was also an early name in B/W monitors that found their way into games.

I'm not actually interested in arguing semantics about TV vs. monitor, but all I'll say is that I didn't mention CS, Pong or Computer Othello when I posted my first comment about Subs & Little Casino even though I was working on and had all 3 those a few feet away from me , but that's just because they have modified TVs in them. 🙃

There is an arcade in central NJ that has been around since 1975, I think, and is still operating... They still have a neon sign in the front window that dates to when they opened that says "T.V. GAMES". Pretty cool sign.
 
In the context of Joe Magiera's question, it matters whether it's a TV or a monitor :)
Yes, you are correct. I should have clarified…
Black & white raster monitors <19" AND have the same monitor connection as common black & white raster games, I.e. Space Invaders, Atari x's & o's Football, etc.
 
Exactly. We all know TVs came first, and monitors were derived from those. The first computer "monitors" were oscilloscopes. The Wright Brothers first planes were powered gliders. The first cars were basically powered wagons (ex: the origins of the dash board came from horse-drawn wagons). And so on. Is a powered bicycle a motorcycle? You have to draw the line somewhere. The definition as I see it is, if you're making a lot of something for a specific use, say like having a production line making monitors for arcade games, even though they might essentially be modified TVs, they're monitors. You give them that name because they're not intended to be sold in TV stores and put on a table in your living room. If you're running down to the local TV dealer to buy hundreds of TVs and then having to modify them to work in an arcade game, like Atari had to do for their early games like Pong, then they're still TVs. Jeff mentions early arcades calling them TV games because that's what they were. The term 'video game' wasn't used yet :) We've all used something for which it wasn't intended for (ex: butterknife for a screwdriver, a rock for a hammer, etc). I can take that Pong TV and undo the mod and watch the local news on it. Can't exactly do that with a Motorola XM500 or W-G 4600 without modifying it (ex: adding hardware) to do something it wasn't intended to do :) Jeff also mentioned the early color games used modified TVs, but those had the typical (or similar) RGB connections. I worked on a Galaxian a few years ago that had an early Electrohome model monitor that was essentially a TV. I'm guessing Atari's Indy 800 used modified color TVs as well. I've also used TVs in place of monitors. Jason even has a YouTube video showing how to do this w/o needing a converter/adapter board. But in both cases, those are TVs being used as monitors... but they're still TVs.
 

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reminds me of an argument i had with a friend over whether the type 30 display on the pdp-1 was actually a vector monitor. his argument was the monitor only produced dots and not vectors therefore its not a vector display. but my argument is this try to replicate a type 30 display without using a vector monitor.

i suppose the "proper" name for both a TV set or any scanning raster monitor is iconoscope.
 
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So for the other games mentioned here, do any of those monitors fit my new/added requirement of:
>Black & white raster monitors <19" AND have the same monitor connection as common black & white raster games, I.e. Space Invaders, Atari x's & o's Football, etc.

I've heard of most of the games mentioned, but I've never seen the insides of any of them to know the monitors.
 
So for the other games mentioned here, do any of those monitors fit my new/added requirement of:
>Black & white raster monitors <19" AND have the same monitor connection as common black & white raster games, I.e. Space Invaders, Atari x's & o's Football, etc.

I've heard of most of the games mentioned, but I've never seen the insides of any of them to know the monitors.
i don't know of any < 19" arcade monitors that are plug and play with the pinout you speak of. except maybe for a gorf mini . there are several industrial monitors < 19" and some of them share the same connector used in arcade games. these monitors range from 3''-15'' in fact you can often get NOS monitors still in the box for less than $20 search HGR they are the worlds largest industrial surplus
 
ah yes i just looked at this picture of the gorf monitor. see this edge connector? this is not the type of connector you are asking for but this is the most common used in industrial equipment about 80% of these crts used this exact pinout and about 20% used the space invaders style 1740841230905.png
 
So for the other games mentioned here, do any of those monitors fit my new/added requirement of:
>Black & white raster monitors <19" AND have the same monitor connection as common black & white raster games, I.e. Space Invaders, Atari x's & o's Football, etc.

I've heard of most of the games mentioned, but I've never seen the insides of any of them to know the monitors.
The Toei monitor that the Space Invaders trimline, and a bunch of Japanese cocktails, use is probably the main one. Found this pic of the back opened on an SI.

1740841591533.png
 
if you want to swap parts around all or nearly all of the 19" bw monitor chassis with the molex connector you speak of can drive a 15" bw tube without any modification. for example you could take the 15" tube out of an asteroids cocktail and directly connect it to a 19" chassis. but you must use reuse the yoke that came with the 19" tube of course
 
ah yes i just looked at this picture of the gorf monitor. see this edge connector? this is not the type of connector you are asking for but this is the most common used in industrial equipment about 80% of these crts used this exact pinout and about 20% used the space invaders style HintView attachment 803263

Hint:
That's not a Gorf...
...a color game with a vertical monitor...
 
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