Any electricians here?

TheDrewster

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So last night I was cleaning my garage so I could actually PLAY my games (imagine that!) and I had all the games plugged in this order w/surge protectors:

Outlet 1 on left wall:
Captain Fantastic
Super Mario Bros
Ms Pac Man
Galaga
GORF
Defender Cocktail

Outlet 2 on right wall:
Tempest
Pole Position
Pole Position 2
Warlords Cocktail
Centipede
Dig Dug
Asteroids
Paperboy
Punch Out!!
Puzzle Bobble 4

Admittedly, my setup on Outlet 2 was risky, and probably a stupid idea as I had a few more plugged in than what the surge protector could hold. But everything seemed to be working fine until I started a game on Super Mario Bros. Thats when everything went POW and the garage breaker popped and everything went dark. Sort of startling when youre working in pitch black at 10pm. D'oh!

So what I did was I moved the games on Outlet 2 to a different outlet on a different breaker. Everything seemed to run much better until about a half hour of usage and the surge protector shorted out and killed the row, popping the line fuse in Pole Position and Asteroids.

So ultimately, my question is...what is the safest way to get these games on one breaker? or even two? Also, my house was built in the late 60s and the thought of overpowering my existing wiring and starting a fire in the attic is always on my mind.
 
1) Get a Kill-A-Watt meter. $15 frequently on sale locally or online. Libraries supposedly have them for checkout as well free.

2) Test each game out and note the highest amp draw they have. Results are often surprizing.

3) Check the circuit breaker (or fuze likely in your case) in your circuit box and see what it can support.

4) Check the gauge of the wiring to your outlets and see what it can REALLY support. 14 GA = 15 amps, 12 GA = 20 amps.


Put no more than 13-14 amps per 15 amp circuit (allow a bit for power-on surge and possible increase during playing).

Your amps depend on your voltage (is it closer to 125 or closer to 110? -- mine is about 123 volts), and the design/draw of the individual game. A Kill-A-Watt meter will show you both Watts and Amps and Volts the PowerFactor ratios. On average 120 watts = 1 amp.


Most 13" minis are 85-100 watts. Most 19" uprights are 110 to 130 watts. Many 25" are 120 to 140 watts.

Some however are horrible.. Q*Bert, a 19" game, is well over 200 watts with original power supply (much less if you put in a switcher and new isolation xformer). Likewise B+W vector are well over 230 watts (Omega Race/Asteroids I've personally tested).
 
Is your electrical system from the late 60s as well? If so - assuming you have someone out to fix your shit up - a licensed electrician probably wouldn't even work on it since it wouldn't be up to current code and may insist on completely replacing your incoming breaker box.

If your incoming wiring is all good then you might consider re-running the wiring from the breaker to the outlets in question with a beefier gauge and installing higher capacity breakers (maybe 30A breakers and 8-10ga wire).

Other than that go get an amp clip with a hold feature and figure out which specific game is pulling too much. Or divide the games up on more outlets and don't turn them on all at once (that is a privilege for those who have actually upgraded their stuff, 15A isn't that much when you have THAT many games pulling about 1.5-2A when idle and 2.5-3A when being played).
 
Put no more than 13-14 amps per 15 amp circuit (allow a bit for power-on surge and possible increase during playing).

the max load you want on any one circuit is 80%. so a 15 amp circuit shouldn't run more than 12 amps as a continuous load.

to the op, you aren't going to be able to get all those games on one or two circuits. if you have any extra space in your circuit breaker box, consider running a new 20 amp circuit to the garage to help balance out your game loads.

and the correct calculation for determining amps is

watts/volts=amps

measure your volts at the outlet, not the panel, because of the distance between the two the voltage will be a bit lower at the outlet.
 
Go with Pac-Fan's method if you have the patience.

I will add that you shouldn't be using regular powerstrips if you can help it. Assuming you have 15A breakers and 5-15R outlets, get a whole bunch (one for each socket if you can) of "contractor grade" outlet multipliers rated for 15A each. A single one of these multipliers will tolerate the full rated load of the entire house circuit, which is breaker protected, so you can now plug in things with hasty abandon and the worst that will happen is tripping a breaker.

If you have 20A breakers and 5-20R outlets with a "T eye", things are a little more complicated, as 20A outlet multipliers are significantly harder to find and plenty more expensive. (They're also incompatible with 5-15R outlets, so they don't show up much at the consumer level.) Thankfully, 5-20R sockets are very rare in residential buildings.
 
What else do you have on those circuits in the house? Or are they both
dedicated to the garage? If dedicated can you balance them out better?
 
One thing I will add is the issue of start up current. Say you have enough games to pull 16 amps during normal operation on a 20 amp circuit. (This would be 80% of the circuit's maximum rating, and it is safe practice not to exceed this.) As it turns out, when you turn on a game, it usually pulls a lot more current (for a brief time) during this start up phase than it does during normal operation. (This comes from inrush current on transformers, charging up CRTs, etc.) So even if you are below the 80% during normal operation, you might end up popping a breaker if you tried to turn all these games on at once.

I have my games set on power distribution blocks with individual switches for each game.

The recommendation of getting a kill-a-watt meter is a very good one.
 
My dad is an electrician (retired) and I've asked him to come over and evaluate my setup, b/c I pop breakers every once in a while as well. Unfortunately, he's in Texas and doesn't get to visit that often. One thing I found out was that I was running a couple of mini fridges on the same breaker as the games. Those and space heaters are power suckers.
 
While you're at it, make sure you're not using cheapie $5 six way splitters as part of the equation either. Some power strips are pretty much junk.
 
the max load you want on any one circuit is 80%. so a 15 amp circuit shouldn't run more than 12 amps as a continuous load.

+1. Also, it's more than a suggestion. Breakers trip on amperage and heat. If you run a 15A breaker at > 80% it *will* trip from heat buildup.

It has already been suggested that you get rid of the cheap strips. Definitely do this as cheap = less copper/smaller wire = unnecessary impedance.

Also go to your breaker box and tighten the lugs to the run. Loose lugs = greater heat buildup. You may also wish to try this at the outlets. Bottom line, the fatter the wire and better the connection, the less problems you will experience.
 
If the garage went dark, your garage lights are on that breaker as well, so you will have to add that in. I put in 20 amp breakers, and they hold up pretty well to 5 or 6 games. They are dedicated though, so nothing else in the garage uses them. We put in a separate breaker for the lights.

Now that I have 15 games out there, I will have to test to see if the two breakers can handle the load. I have space in the box for two more breakers, so I may need to add them. Although I can plug a few into the pre-existing outlets I guess. I am only using those for power tools right now.

My electrician friend is moving this week, or I would give you his number. It will be expensive to run everything though. Copper is expensive! I spent over $200 just on wire, outlets, and switches. I don't imagine an electrician would do the work for less than $300 (and that would be the side work guys, a contractor would be a lot more probably.).

This reminds me, I need to get him to put in a 220 line for the welder before he leaves. :)
 
Just a quick fyi... I know max ratings should be used for calcs, yada yada

I moved some games to the garage, inadvertently had ten games, 4 flouescents, 3 alarm clocks, one incandescant, and a computer/monitor running fine off and on for a week, then tripped the breaker one night... Come to find out it was all on a 10 amp breaker...

I turn the 10 on with two switches, so not all at once... and it was 8 19"ers, 1 25"er, and one 22"b&w, and most idle

That trip and this thread have peaked an interest though, i'll borrow a watt meter tomorrow and post my results
- gwarble
 
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Yep, and who knows what all else. If his set up is from the 60's.....hell, half his house could be on one!:eek:

Heh, sounds like here...1 bedroom, the den, bathroom, hallway and outlet by the washer in the basement are all on one circuit. But the guy who built it in the 50's gave the bathroom in the basement its own circuit, since it only has 1 light fixture :rolleyes:
 
Just a quick fyi... I know max ratings should be used for calcs, yada yada

I moved some games to the garage, inadvertently had ten games, 4 flouescents, 3 alarm clocks, one incandescant, and a computer/monitor running fine off and on for a week

Just because it's working fine doesn't mean it couldn't eventually stress the electrical system enough to start a fire. There are some things you shouldn't roll the dice with.
 
absolutely... don't let my non-chalant yada yada signify that i don't think its important... i was just posting the facts of what happened...

and i also meant i inadvertently had them on a 10-amp circuit, not that i inadvertently had them on, worded poorly but i knew they were on :)

the interesting thing to me was that a relatively small breaker was supporting a lot more equipment than i would have expected or done on purpose, i actually thought one side of the garage and a bedroom were on a different circuit but i was wrong

i've done rough calcs on cost analysis in the past and always assumed a rated 3amp game (360watts) would typically draw half that, maybe 2... but in reality the average over the 10 games running was less than 1 ea (also assuming that the 10A breaker is actually tripping at 10A and not more or less) which is good to know... also interesting was that turning on 6 at once, while 4 were already on, didn't ever trip the breaker either, so i'm curious how much "extra" draw there really is on startup

but thanks for the heads up, and to put you at ease, i would also recommend to any readers to err on the side of caution when things/people you like are at risk... a fire would suck!


my personal plan is to drop 2 20A circuits with proper gauge wiring, one for each side of the "arcade" out of the electrical box (which is conveniently in the garage), each with one 20A+ switch (for ease of turning them all on at once) and adding on-delay-relays if required for initial draw being too much (or causing memory loss) but i'm thinking i won't need them

- gwarble



Just because it's working fine doesn't mean it couldn't eventually stress the electrical system enough to start a fire. There are some things you shouldn't roll the dice with.
 
If you have a Federal Pacific panel then you have your answer why a small breaker isn't tripping. FP breakers are known to NOT trip... period. If you take one out of the panel to inspect and it crumbles in your hand that means it got hot enough to turn brittle.
 
If the garage went dark, your garage lights are on that breaker as well, so you will have to add that in. I put in 20 amp breakers, and they hold up pretty well to 5 or 6 games. They are dedicated though, so nothing else in the garage uses them. We put in a separate breaker for the lights.

Did you switch out the in-wall wiring too? Changing to a higher breaker without the higher gauge wire to back it up is monumentally stupid, and DANGEROUS.
 
Heh, sounds like here...1 bedroom, the den, bathroom, hallway and outlet by the washer in the basement are all on one circuit. But the guy who built it in the 50's gave the bathroom in the basement its own circuit, since it only has 1 light fixture :rolleyes:

Our house too. I swear the majority of the house is on 2 breakers. When I needed to replace the ceiling fan/light at the top of our stairway the breaker that was on shut off damn near everything. Kitchen has individual breakers for the appliances and there are a couple other breakers for random outlets that were added later on (I assume). But when we moved in I tried to figure out what breaker was for what section of the house and the two on the bottom left of the breaker box are now labled "Almost Everything" and "The Rest". :)
 
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