Amusement machine industry not actually in shambles?

[TheRickster]

The fighting game stuff is pretty regional, shoryuken.com is where all the fighting game players round up on. Arcade Legends runs a lot of the Southern Ohio tournaments. We get a lot of people in and have tournaments quite a bit. Arcades are definitely on the rise again... It's just having a location and knowing how to reach out to the right groups.

 

[kiwasabi]

Hopefully some of the marketing team will realize the potential for classicized modern games. Like how geometry wars is on the 360. It's basically a traditional 80's space ship shooting game but is extremely addicting because of it's ease to pick up and play.

There's definitely a market for these types of games in the arcades. These were the types of games that were getting the insane amounts of coin drop back in the late 70's/early 80's, and are still popular. I'm surprised Eugene Jarvis hasn't gone back to his roots and made games like these.

I run a small, dedicated arcade at a mall in West Valley City UT and I've been open for a little over a year and a half. We had to move locations to stay in business but once we did that, business has exploded. I have no ticket redemption and rely on nothing but videos for my income. We do have a small PC network but at the moment the arcade makes a good three to four times of what that does right now.

As I write this my place is packed with people and more are coming in. There is still plenty of interest in arcades and 2009 was a year full of great releases like H2Overdrive, Razing Storm, Tank! Tank! Tank!, Guitar Hero, BlazBlue and others.

To give you an idea of where things are for us, yesterday I pulled tokens out of my King of Fighters 98 machine and it was outearning our Tokyo Drift game which is generally our top earner next to Blazing Angels. Fighters are making a comeback and I have people asking for BlazBlue all the time. I would get it, if I had the available funds at the moment.

I know another operator who is in Utah and he tells me that his FEC location is doing better than ever this year. More arcade-only locations like mine are beginning to pop-up again, like ArcadeUFO, Arcade Infinity and I personally get e-mails from people every week looking for advice and information on starting an arcade location (I do the writing on Arcade Heroes).

The arcade industry is not dead - I know it's not like it used to be but we are certainly doing better than we were just five years ago. I believe that it will continue to improve in 2010 as there will be a number of cool games coming along. I would really like to see more than racing/light-guns (like I said, now is a good time for fighters thanks to Street Fighter IV) with developers approaching some concepts seen in the classics but they will make what the market wants at the end of the day.

I'm glad to hear you've been so successful. Fighters will always have a place in the arcades just because it's the only place you can show your skills to a complete stranger and see the look on his face when you beat him. A lot of people hate playing online because people will be poor sports and leave in the middle of matches and that type of crap. In arcades that obviously can't happen.

And I would also love to see something other than fighters and racers coming out.

 

[TheRickster]

And I would also love to see something other than fighters and racers coming out.

You get racers out still? :3 The initial D scene here pretty much ended when they went to stage 4... No wangan midnights anywhere around Dayton or Cincy either.

This thread made me think about opening up a business all day yesterday. Thanks! haha.

 

[editor]

Arcade - Such a Sambles?

The classic games have been released by Namco (Galaga, PacMan and Ms.PacMan) - others are released in multi game systems, but it is a tricky market to make money on.

Most of the big money tournament games have a online capability - rather than just the paper version.

 

[kiwasabi]

You get racers out still? :3 The initial D scene here pretty much ended when they went to stage 4... No wangan midnights anywhere around Dayton or Cincy either.

This thread made me think about opening up a business all day yesterday. Thanks! haha.

Well I was mostly just talking about the racers coming out from Raw Thrills I suppose (Fast and the Furious, Nicktoons Racing, etc), which are essentially Cruis'n' USA.

There's definitely opportunity to succeed in the arcade industry. I've been thinking for a long time about how bowling alleys and hockey rinks all stay in business for 30+ years; they have leagues! If you have more structure in the way you run the arcade, and ensure that the same people are coming back on a regular basis (through tournaments, league nights, etc), that's how you'll maintain financial stability.

Oh, and put your arcade next door to a bar and work with them to share business. Having a bar next door will get you a lot more adult business but will prevent you from needing to spend $100k+ on a liquor license.

The classic games have been released by Namco (Galaga, PacMan and Ms.PacMan) - others are released in multi game systems, but it is a tricky market to make money on.

Most of the big money tournament games have a online capability - rather than just the paper version.

Well I was talking more about making new games that are more like the classics (easy to pick up and play, difficult to master), rather than attempting to milk the classics more than they already have been.

 

[TheRickster]

Well I was mostly just talking about the racers coming out from Raw Thrills I suppose (Fast and the Furious, Nicktoons Racing, etc), which are essentially Cruis'n' USA.

There's definitely opportunity to succeed in the arcade industry. I've been thinking for a long time about how bowling alleys and hockey rinks all stay in business for 30+ years; they have leagues! If you have more structure in the way you run the arcade, and ensure that the same people are coming back on a regular basis (through tournaments, league nights, etc), that's how you'll maintain financial stability.

Oh, and put your arcade next door to a bar and work with them to share business. Having a bar next door will get you a lot more adult business but will prevent you from needing to spend $100k+ on a liquor license.



Well I was talking more about making new games that are more like the classics (easy to pick up and play, difficult to master), rather than attempting to milk the classics more than they already have been.

That's basically how arcade legends works in cincy, I'd like to open up something here in Dayton as well. They are sort of near a bar and really dont get any business from it. Actually they are between two that are about 4 stores down each side in the same shopping center. Could just be because people aren't big on paying $10 upfront for play all day... It's crazy how many people walk in and just leave cause they don't want to pay that.

I've tossed around the liquor license idea as well as some others to attract business that don't involve alcohol. I'm only 23 thought and actually being able to get the capital to do it seems like it'd almost be impossible.

 

[IvanTT]

Just thought you guys should see the future of Public Play:

http://www.i-cocoon.com/

Public ! Shit I want one of those for home thats gonna be awesome!

 

[ixtlann]

i feel alot better about the industry after reading this thread

 

[kiwasabi]

i feel alot better about the industry after reading this thread

Yeah it's quite surprising, isn't it?

Editor, I realized I have another question for you. I realize that machine sales are up, but how about coin drop? I never seem to see anybody playing games at the movie theater, bar, etc.

 

[ixtlann]

Yeah it's quite surprising, isn't it?

Editor, I realized I have another question for you. I realize that machine sales are up, but how about coin drop? I never seem to see anybody playing games at the movie theater, bar, etc.

i can partially answer this.
when a company operates games in several venues including movie theatres, they charge more on the games at the theatres. the games at theatres are played only right b4 and right after the moves, its called tides or something like that if work at the theatre.
they all come at once and play alot for a few minutes. then they leave.

also namco america operates alot of these. they figured out the whole ting about bringing the ms pac / galaga back is the ladys love to play simple games on button and all.
especially at theatres or something?


and yes 5 years ago the industry was kinda grim
namco arcades bought out alot of other chains over the years, including a larger one about 9 years ago. i was told it was worth it just for the machines they needed for there fast growing unmanned locations business, which had a great business model. some locations they yanked the games immediatly upon acquisition becuz they couldnt work with whatever the previsous owners had setup. Several other chains before that. they also about 9 years ago picked up alot of unmanned location contracts, movie theatres everywhere, all the fudd ruckers on the east coast, since 1 guy owned all the east coast fudd ruckers franchises.

they offer the best rev share opportunitys 50/50 split most of the time afaik back then 7 or so years ago, and they WILL NOT leave a down machine at a satellite/ unmanned location, they will yank it out and bring something in until parts come basically.


if a mall with no foot traffic will not give them the right deal on there rent, they will yank that location right out. Some times its a bs thing them playing chicken and they will reopen in same location again later???? i think i heard that some where need some clarification on that.

 

[natey_boy]

I have purchased several machines here in alaska with hopes of starting my own arcade, not many are rare grail classics most are just fun common games folks like to play mixed with a few newer fun ones. anyhow that got put on hold due to location issues and then my gf's illness made me sell quite a few but im still trying and will not give up!

 

[MmSadda]

Very interesting thread! Thanks Editor and Kiwasabi for an interesting, insightful discussion!

 

[zappaf19]

This is a great thread! In a town about 10 miles from me is a "arcade" which uses X boxs and the likes. They do not have a stand up anywhere. The walls are coverd with flat screens with couchs and chairs to sit on when playing the games. I have never seen a "adult" in there playing.
I too have toyed with the idea of starting a arcade biz. What has stoped me is the small town I live in plus I only have older games. (13 games and 3 pins) Back in the day there was a arcade place 45 min from me where after 7 pm you had to be 17 to get in which was nice because there was not a bunch of kids running all over.
Bill

 

[AtariShag]

In response to the Namco arcades at malls :

There is one right across from me that is unmanned. They currently have three or four games offline and for some reason they never get them fixed even though I see a tech in there on occasion. The only time I talked to the tech though he was a total a-hole.

Back into the industry:

To give you an idea of the arcade releases this year, I have a post on AH about the Game of the Year. All of the games on that list were released this year - if the industry were dead, none of these games would exist

http://arcadeheaven.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/the-arcade-heroes-arcade-game-of-the-year-2009-poll/

Some games that should be of interest but I am not sure how much discussion they have got here are:

H2Overdrive - remake of Hydro Thunder, put together by the same team who did the original and overseen by Eugene Jarvis. This game takes everything about HT and makes it better, it has outstanding graphics and the replay value is much better than just about any other racer out there. The price is pretty good for a 42" screen game as well, it's priced at the level of a standard racer.

Tank! Tank! Tank! - this essentially a remake of Namco's Tokyo Wars but they actually gave it several levels this time (that was my biggest complaint about TW - it only had two levels and thus felt like a demo instead of a full game). It's insanely fun and has a lot of focus on co-op play although there is a deathmatch mode

Razing Storm - Crisis Zone meets Gears of War. Done by the team who has done all of the Time Crisis games. It looks and plays very well but I haven't seen them at many places yet as the cabinets are very expensive.

Textminator - an original game based upon texting. It's fun but I do wonder how it will hold-up as mini-keyboards for texting become more popular.

Tetris Giant - this is a cool concept and it's nice to see puzzle gaming return to arcades. Only problem is the price tag, like Razing Storm will probably keep a lot of places from getting it.

Next year we've got a lot of games coming out that should continue to help the industry to grow: Terminator Salvation, Dead Storm Pirates, Sega Card Gen MLB, NASCAR 2 (w/ internet play), Metal Gear Arcade are a few that we know of already. We also have promises of some big things coming along from a few of the companies behind the games mentioned above - Sega revealed not long ago that they want to focus on innovative gaming (sadly I don't think we can consider their Daytona remake Sega Racing Classic to do that, but ideas like Sega Card Gen and Tetris Giant are steps in the right direction) and Eugene Jarvis recently said "...you will see some crazy new stuff from us as soon as next year! I really enjoy pioneering new game technology..." so who knows what that means exactly but I have heard that they have some very interesting projects going on at RT at the moment.

Also, sorry to be long winded here but Stride Gum also has a Save the Arcades campaign going on right now where you can nominate your favorite arcade to win some cash to help them out.

And I almost forgot to mention, Stern Pinball got a new investor and they are drumming up a new business plan. So hopefully that means in 2010 we'll see pinball start to make a decent comeback with new games that don't look like they could have been made in 1993

 

[WadeLanham]

Wow, lot of people in denial here. I'd love to believe it, but I know better. Every arcade location I've seen has done nothing but shrink or disappear over the past 15 years. The entire industry has mirrored this.

Wade

 

[r5g]

biz

this post relates more to the core biz than anything, that is, pre video boom days, i would agree that for locations that were profitable before 1980, like bowling alleys, mall arcades, regional attractions, good bars, restaraunts, ect there is a good future for coin op there, trouble is, the biz got 400% bigger from the pre 1980 levels, and is still on its way down to pre 1980 levels, when it gets there, and only the above locations are attended to, then maybe it will be semi healthy