Amplifone Tube Swap ...

Like Rick Nieman (the guy from Nieman Displays, and production engineer of the Electrohome G07 !) would be wrong:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71624.msg735924#msg735924

As you can read there I also thought they were actually magnets, but they are not. When you have a bunch of them close to each other they do not attract or push away each other.

Since when does WG actually know anything about monitors by the way ?
 
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Like Rick Nieman (the guy from Nieman Displays, and production engineer of the Electrohome G07 !) would be wrong:

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=71624.msg735924#msg735924

As you can read there I also thought they were actually magnets, but they are not. When you have a bunch of them close to each other they do not attract or push away each other.

Since when does WG actually know anything about monitors by the way ?

Found a Sony document that says those Permalloy strips have disk magnets.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24405455/TVP09-RA-3-Chassis

I'm more inclined to believe documentation from manufacturers.

Ok, that document also says that they will have metal or ferrite to impact the magnetic field of the yoke. So it sort of contradicts itself... Have to keep looking.

Edit: Permalloy strips can be magnetized.
 
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Thanks guys, but do you think the magnetic / non-magnetic strips would be the cause of my purity problem?

Level42,

Thanks for the link. I am going to send Rick an email and ask him about my problem.

Thanks,
Kent
 
Also is there anybody else out there who I can reach to who might be knowledgeable on Amplifones?

Kent
 
sitting on a shelf in my basement next to boxes of clothes ... nothing could have gotten magnetized ... when you say tabs being magnetized, what tabs are you referring to?

Kent
 
ok that's what I thought, but wasn't sure ... yeah, based on where it was sitting I can't believe those would have gotten magnetized ...

Kent
 
Found a Sony document that says those Permalloy strips have disk magnets.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24405455/TVP09-RA-3-Chassis

I'm more inclined to believe documentation from manufacturers.

Ok, that document also says that they will have metal or ferrite to impact the magnetic field of the yoke. So it sort of contradicts itself... Have to keep looking.

Edit: Permalloy strips can be magnetized.

You are confusing things here. That document is talking about disc magnets AND permalloy strips. Two different things.

Widegeek description of Permalloy:
This metal magnetizes and demagnetizes quickly and evenly, in contrast with other metals which exhibit magnetic properties. Various factors can influence the magnetic permeability of the permalloy, including the humidity, temperature, strength of the field used for magnetization, distance of the magnetic field, and so forth. These variables can be tightly controlled as needed by people working with the metal so that they can achieve the desired results for the application in which the metal is being used.

Sounds exactly what is needed and reached with the strips we are talking about. Very interesting and a good find because I've always wondered what kind of metal it was (I've been thinking of making these strips myself, they are getting rare!).

The magnets mentioned are more like the one's find inside the yoke I guess. Also note that the manual is for flat screen TV's, what's make it different from our old-fashioned round tubes. However, Kent, you could experiment CAREFULLY with a (weak) magnet to see if it helps.

As mentioned before, Rich was production engineer on the G07 line of monitors AND now has his own company in monitors. He also gives (or gave) group sessions to instruct how to do complete monitor set-up (convergence). He knows his stuff.

Also, in my book, magnets stick to (most) metals. The strips don't.


Kent: no, those strips have nothing to do with the purity. They are only for edge/corner convergence. I made a video about how they work here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYB1L8AIeq4

Note that this is the LAST step you do on a complete convergence job.

First: How did you do the demagnatization ? Did you just do the front of the screen or the entire tube (from the back). Could be worth a try. Do it while it's in the set-up you are going to converge it in, because as soon as you move it it may already change again. This is especially true if it is powered on ! (I have very often moved a running cab, saw the colors changed. After a power down and (automatic) degauss by the monitor itself this usually is gone.

Did you try tilting the yoke sideways or up/down to get the green pure all over the screen ?
Check out the document that VectorJunkie linked to, it's an interesting read. That also has a picture of what I mean on page

It's been quite some time ago I worked on it, but I seem to remember that I had to do this to get purity right on the low-res 25" I was working on.

To be clear: I have NOT done complete convergence on my own Amplifone 25". The main convergence (center) was fine when I got it, it only had the shown problems on that video.

The one I did try to converge was that Amplifone set-up with a Low-res tube (WG ?)
Never got it perfect though. I too felt like I had to move the yoke more towards the screen than was possible. I still think it has something to do with the angle of the tube.
 
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Kent: no, those strips have nothing to do with the purity. They are only for edge/corner convergence. I made a video about how they work here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYB1L8AIeq4

yep .... I assumed this but some of the statements in this post have been misleading ...

First: How did you do the demagnatization ? Did you just do the front of the screen or the entire tube (from the back). Could be worth a try. Do it while it's in the set-up you are going to converge it in, because as soon as you move it it may already change again. This is especially true if it is powered on ! (I have very often moved a running cab, saw the colors changed. After a power down and (automatic) degauss by the monitor itself this usually is gone.

I degaussed the tube from the front. I realize it's worth a try, but how do think degaussing the entire tube will help?

Did you try tilting the yoke sideways or up/down to get the green pure all over the screen ?

tried this ... no luck ...

The one I did try to converge was that Amplifone set-up with a Low-res tube (WG ?)
Never got it perfect though. I too felt like I had to move the yoke more towards the screen than was possible. I still think it has something to do with the angle of the tube.

this sounds similar to my issue ... I can't move the yoke close enough to the tube to get good purity ...

Kent
 
I am joining in a little late here but I just pieced together a 25" amplifone setup for my Star Wars cockpit. Used a WG 6100 Yoke, NOS Tube from Scotty at Hawkeye picture tube, WG 6100 rings and rebuilt Amplifone boards courtesy of Dave Jones. I am having a hell of a time trying to get the convergence right. Unlike yourself I had no problem getting the green crosshatch screen completely uniform. After setting purity, I adjusted the convergence rings while going through the various crosshatch patterns in the test mode. I managed to get the crosshatch patterns looking pretty good. Now here comes the problem...during the attract screens when the text is rolling the lettering is off considerably. If I try to adjust the rings to fix the lettering the crosshatch patterns do not line up in test mode. And we are not talking about the edges of the screen here. The text is even off in the center of the screen. I can't figure this one out. I am starting to wonder if I have a bad yoke ?
 
I degaussed the tube from the front. I realize it's worth a try, but how do think degaussing the entire tube

Don't be afraid to degauss it all around the tube. Get the monitor mounts real good and any other metal near the tube. I have had control panels and speaker grills, even metal stuff on my bench cause problems... You can degauss all of that stuff. :)
 
Don't be afraid to degauss it all around the tube. Get the monitor mounts real good and any other metal near the tube. I have had control panels and speaker grills, even metal stuff on my bench cause problems... You can degauss all of that stuff. :)

so how do you degauss the metal mounts the back of the tube? ... Run the degaussing ring by it? ... just a little confused .
 
so how do you degauss the metal mounts the back of the tube? ... Run the degaussing ring by it? ... just a little confused .

Wax on, wax off... Serious... Just move it in circles. The coil puts out an alternating electromagnetic field. So what you are trying to do is degauss things by exposing them to the alternating forces. When you move around something I would just keep the center of the coil pointed at the object. So you could go all around it in 3d space, but always have the coil parallel to the surface. Always keep the coil moving to help balance the exposure to the coils magnetic field. Oh, and most coils should not be used for long periods at a time. They start getting pretty hot. Mine says not to run it for 10 mins as an example.
 
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I am joining in a little late here but I just pieced together a 25" amplifone setup for my Star Wars cockpit. Used a WG 6100 Yoke, NOS Tube from Scotty at Hawkeye picture tube, WG 6100 rings and rebuilt Amplifone boards courtesy of Dave Jones. I am having a hell of a time trying to get the convergence right. Unlike yourself I had no problem getting the green crosshatch screen completely uniform. After setting purity, I adjusted the convergence rings while going through the various crosshatch patterns in the test mode. I managed to get the crosshatch patterns looking pretty good. Now here comes the problem...during the attract screens when the text is rolling the lettering is off considerably. If I try to adjust the rings to fix the lettering the crosshatch patterns do not line up in test mode. And we are not talking about the edges of the screen here. The text is even off in the center of the screen. I can't figure this one out. I am starting to wonder if I have a bad yoke ?

Pics, or even better video would be great.
 
Been wondering about that too, I think a set with the same number of rings and same diameter should work.

My uncle told me that the permanent magnets (which these rings are) could loose their magnetism (or it gets less strong) over time.

However, when adjusting purity, this is still not the issue....
 
Been wondering about that too, I think a set with the same number of rings and same diameter should work.

My uncle told me that the permanent magnets (which these rings are) could loose their magnetism (or it gets less strong) over time.

Thank you

I will try it one day, as I don't have a correct set made for the Amplifone
 
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