Alternatives to PayPal ?

Similarly, don't buy a new car where the manufacturer is turning around and selling your electronically-gathered driving data TO THE FUCKING INSURANCE COMPANIES, who use it to set your rates.
Unless you drive really well! Then absolutely do it and get that discount.
 
I've always had a fairly uneventful relationship with PayPal over the nearly 20 years I've been using it.
Well, my time finally came due.
This morning I received notice that my account had been locked for my safety and security. They needed some information.
They want me to use my phone to send them a picture of my ID, along with a picture of my face, before they will again allow me access to my money.

But this is not a post about the horrors of PayPal. There are plenty of threads related to that.
It's about alternatives.

What are people using?
How do I sell Merlin boards if I don't take PayPal. Do other services offer seller tools like "Buy Now" buttons?
That could be a spoof. I'd call their customer support line and inquire.
 
That could be a spoof. I'd call their customer support line and inquire.
It's no spoof.
I logged into my PayPal directly. Everything looks normal except for the big red banner across the top...
PP.jpg

Stripe sounds promising, but for now, nobody has a stripe account. The convenience provided by PP is that everyone uses it.
I'm in no hurry to fix this, so it's obviously going to cause problems if anyone would like to get an Arthur or Merlin board anytime soon.
And to make matters worse, I have another run of Dexter's coming soon.
 
It's no spoof.
I logged into my PayPal directly. Everything looks normal except for the big red banner across the top...
View attachment 787135

Stripe sounds promising, but for now, nobody has a stripe account. The convenience provided by PP is that everyone uses it.
I'm in no hurry to fix this, so it's obviously going to cause problems if anyone would like to get an Arthur or Merlin board anytime soon.
And to make matters worse, I have another run of Dexter's coming soon.
Your customers don't need a Stripe account to send you money for your boards.
 
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Nah Zelle itself does not support chargebacks, their website states:

"No, Zelle®​ payments cannot be reversed. With Zelle®​ money moves into an enrolled recipient's account within minutes and cannot be reversed."

Additionally, their user agreement mentions "authorized payments that have been sent to a recipient enrolled in Zelle are final and irreversible, and cannot be disputed."

I suppose you could attempt to file a chargeback through your bank, but they'd likely see it as an authorized transfer based off Zelle's UA and you'd get denied.

There's a good reason scammers use Zelle.
I'm aware of Zelle's statement. And yes that's how you do a Zelle chargeback , it's actually thorough the financial institution
 
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living life in modern civilization means acquiescing to a lot of stuff that we don't regularly consider or to which we have no touch. the notion of control sounds nice and makes us feel good, but it's fiction. i'm not saying "don't fight the battle", just that the only victories are in principle only or are just imaginary placebo-tier cope. it's not worth fretting about either because, again, it's pointless

Not true, but a lot of people tell themselves this either because they've never learned what to do differently or they don't want to put any effort in.

It is also not a "all or none" situation. We've had this discussion on another thread. I don't use Facebook for a LOT of reasons. But I still have a cellphone.

Unless you're going to go be a hermit somewhere its impossible.

Its a scale: 100% you're giving your information to anyone and everyone. 0% you're riding you're bike to the middle of Alaska and living off the grid.

Some are closer to the former, some are closer to the latter with their information. Its not absolute.

That's mostly true but having to live off the grid or be a hermit is not at all required to maintain excellent privacy.
 
That's mostly true but having to live off the grid or be a hermit is not at all required to maintain excellent privacy.

Like I said, its a scale. If you want to say you have 100% privacy and anonymity - its the hermit life for you. No property, no cell phone, no job, no bank, no internet, cash for everything.
 
Like I said, its a scale. If you want to say you have 100% privacy and anonymity - its the hermit life for you. No property, no cell phone, no job, no bank, no internet, cash for everything.
It also helps if you have a Hoover Max Extract Pressure-Pro, model sixty.
 
Well sure, if the definition of privacy is no individual, no company, no government knows one single fact about you. That certainly would be one end of the spectrum. But that's not necessary to obtain high levels of privacy. Mostly what I mean when I advocate for privacy is online privacy since that's where the vast majority of the population has needlessly given up and let data miners learn everything about them, sell it to whoever wants it, hand it over to the government, etc.
 
Well sure, if the definition of privacy is no individual, no company, no government knows one single fact about you. That certainly would be one end of the spectrum. But that's not necessary to obtain high levels of privacy. Mostly what I mean when I advocate for privacy is online privacy since that's where the vast majority of the population has needlessly given up and let data miners learn everything about them, sell it to whoever wants it, hand it over to the government, etc.
There was a whole discussion on this topic. I feel I'm a very private person, but it's hard for me to get in a tizzy about what others do online. Sure I'm not on Facebook/twitter/instagram like some.

I have a cellphone. I use a credit card. I own property. I have a job. I have insurance. I shop online.

Every single one of those is harvesting information that I can't opt out of (along with some that isn't worth opting out if, imo).

None of those listed am I willing to give up.
 
I keep my information as secure as possible and do everything I can to keep it private.
But that's not the issue here.

PayPal, in effect, has stolen my money, and they are using extortion to force me to provide data to them.
"Give us the data, or you will never see your money again"
No warning, No explanation.

How can anyone EVER have trust in this company after this treatment.
I'm done with PayPal. I'm never going back. It's a question of what to replace it with.
Money Orders are nice.
 
I have a cellphone. I use a credit card. I own property. I have a job. I have insurance. I shop online.

Every single one of those is harvesting information that I can't opt out of (along with some that isn't worth opting out if, imo).

You can "opt out" of cell phone harvesting, which along with Meta (FB/IG/What's App) are by far the most dangerous for online privacy.
 
You can "opt out" of cell phone harvesting, which along with Meta (FB/IG/What's App) are by far the most dangerous for online privacy.
I'm assuming you mean from the cell provider. I'm not aware of this option, what can be opted out, what can't. But honestly that is a whole subject by itself. Are cell companies still sharing meta data with the US agencies?

"Normal"/non-social media apps are harvesting so much shit no one can keep track of it all. You can attempt to limit it, but IMO its a losing battle.
 
So I've been doing a bit of research into PayPal alternatives, and Stripe was very promising for giving payment links and credit card services.
But.. After digging into the weeds of their website, I finally got to this page...
So it appears that this "photo of your face" issue is likely coming to all payment services.

Zelle turns out to be an e-check service used by just about every bank in America.
It's obviously the best choice because it has no fees.
The drawback is that there is no credit card service with it, and both parties must have Zelle enabled with their banks.
It's also instantaneous, with no safeguards for the buyer.

Ultimately I think Bitcoin will be the long term answer.
I look forward to the Wild West of digital cash. :)
 
Bitcoin? I'm not sure there are any safeguards for the buyer with Bitcoin. But, its been A LOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG time since I looked at it.
 
I'm assuming you mean from the cell provider. I'm not aware of this option, what can be opted out, what can't. But honestly that is a whole subject by itself. Are cell companies still sharing meta data with the US agencies?

"Normal"/non-social media apps are harvesting so much shit no one can keep track of it all. You can attempt to limit it, but IMO its a losing battle.
No, I mean degoogled phones that remove most if not all of google's data harvesting, and whatever data is collected by them or by apps is irrelevant because there's no identity associated with the data unless it's an app you log into. So no, it's not a losing battle, but it does take some effort and to some degree that effort is ongoing because privacy threats do change over time (like with AI entering the picture). Also, a trustworthy vpn can limit data collection by cell providers, other than location data. I keep up with all this by following the Rob Braxman youtube channel.
 
No, I mean degoogled phones that remove most if not all of google's data harvesting, and whatever data is collected by them or by apps is irrelevant because there's no identity associated with the data unless it's an app you log into. So no, it's not a losing battle, but it does take some effort and to some degree that effort is ongoing because privacy threats do change over time (like with AI entering the picture). Also, a trustworthy vpn can limit data collection by cell providers, other than location data. I keep up with all this by following the Rob Braxman youtube channel.
Hey - I wish you luck! You're going to a level I'm not committed to and I applaud you.
 
You're correct, There is absolutely no safeguard with Bitcoin.
What it does have going for it (assuming we all have personal wallet software), is absolutely no 3rd party or government involvement.
Cash that can be transferred electronically.
Right now, Bitcoin is treated as an investment quantity held by large trading houses, but I can easily see it swinging back to an individual's form of money.

Does anyone here have a Bitcoin wallet, and able to buy/sell in Bitcoin?
 
You're correct, There is absolutely no safeguard with Bitcoin.
What it does have going for it (assuming we all have personal wallet software), is absolutely no 3rd party or government involvement.
Cash that can be transferred electronically.
Right now, Bitcoin is treated as an investment quantity held by large trading houses, but I can easily see it swinging back to an individual's form of money.

Does anyone here have a Bitcoin wallet, and able to buy/sell in Bitcoin?

That is a good question. I'm pretty sure you mean an actual personal wallet and not a holding firm.

I'd be curious what the time is to use a personal wallet to buy something. Back a long time ago it was getting to be a not insignificant amount of time.
 
Right. An actual personal wallet for Bitcoin.
I set one up about 10 years ago, but there was no easy way to change your dollars into Bitcoins to fill your wallet, so it sat empty and was soon forgotten.

Bitcoin is no longer some strange obscure thing, it has accepted value. The system for using it must be easier, or soon will be.
So Yeah... I'm perfectly willing to start using Bitcoin as my preferred currency for internet purchases.
 
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