Alibaba RFP for tubes?

I found this thread wherein the threats of X-ray radiation get called out. http://https://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=392981&highlight=Tube+swap+g07

A couple of thoughts: 1) I thought the crt radiation thing was a myth. 2) I have young children and am not an electrical engineer, should I be doing this?

you've asked about 60 questions in this thread already. they're the kind of questions where if you have to ask them, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

as for that thread, the core lesson is that you can't just simply use your multimeter and take an ohm measurement on the horizontal and vertical windings of the yoke and be like "ok, it's close enough" and operate your monitor like that.

and if X-rays were a myth, why do monitors have a high voltage shutdown?

once again, if you weren't culturally aware of this feature, you should probably spend your time just playing your games instead of engaging in the laborious task of tube swapping. people blow this screen burn thing so far out of proportion it's to a point where if someone posts an ad and mention "burn-free tube" it seriously pisses me off. especially when it's a game that by virtue of how it was programmed could ultimately burn the screen again anyway. you'd have to obviously have the game on for a very long time to accomplish this, and it almost never happens in household use, but I'm sure there's someone out there that's done it.

there's another lesson from that thread. it essentially means that if you run a TV yoke instead or a tube that isn't 100% compatible with the chassis you're running, a number of things on the the monitor can operate outside their tolerance. chief among them, X-rays. I don't care if a K7000 is "close enough" to most TV yokes, I'm swapping the yoke.

if you do enough research you can actually skirt around having to converge the monitor again. in all the tube swaps I've done, I've never had to do it. just something to consider.

the last item I'd like to point out is there's a massive influx of people getting into the hobby now that aren't taking the time to learn how the hardware works. 9 years ago I didn't know jack shit about video games, and I too thought the tube manufacturer was indicative of the "monitor chassis" (common mistake; people saying "I have an RCA monitor"). I do this professionally now, because I took a lot of my free time out to learn how these things work, and you get good at it when you actually know what you're doing first before you set out to work on things.

otherwise, sell your machines and go back to consoles. they were intended to be repaired and maintained by people like me. it's not easy enough that your grandma can do it, contrary to what people may believe. if you look in the repair section you'll actually see recurring users that seemingly have nothing but problems with their games. it's because they don't know how.

that's it, I'm done being a prick with a lengthy rant now.
 
Lots of thoughts here...

you've asked about 60 questions in this thread already. they're the kind of questions where if you have to ask them, you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Is this not literally the best place to learn about this stuff? Trust me, I've been searching Google for "tube swap" information for months...guess what comes up? By asking these questions, I'm trying to learn, and become an expert...not some fly by night a-hole who just wants to toss tubes into old games and make a profit.

My dream is that I could come up with solutions that might help the whole community. I may not be an electrical engineer or CRT expert, but I have skills which could easily help to create something useful.


as for that thread, the core lesson is that you can't just simply use your multimeter and take an ohm measurement on the horizontal and vertical windings of the yoke and be like "ok, it's close enough" and operate your monitor like that.

This is great, do you have any links to resources?

once again, if you weren't culturally aware of this feature, you should probably spend your time just playing your games instead of engaging in the laborious task of tube swapping.

Why not learn how to preserve and repair these amazing games? If humanity just sat around saying "good enough" we wouldn't have accomplished anything. My education and tinkering here will help to ensure that my children know the history of these electronics and the elegant solutions the engineers had to make while having a lack of tools at their disposal.

Furthermore, this is how I choose to spend my time. It's a hobby. This is like telling someone who enjoys repairing old cars that cars should only be used for commuting.

if you do enough research you can actually skirt around having to converge the monitor again. in all the tube swaps I've done, I've never had to do it. just something to consider.

Again, fantastic info...do you have a source? This isn't exactly a popular topic outside of this forum.

the last item I'd like to point out is there's a massive influx of people getting into the hobby now that aren't taking the time to learn how the hardware works. 9 years ago I didn't know jack shit about video games, and I too thought the tube manufacturer was indicative of the "monitor chassis" (common mistake; people saying "I have an RCA monitor"). I do this professionally now, because I took a lot of my free time out to learn how these things work, and you get good at it when you actually know what you're doing first before you set out to work on things.

What do you think I'm doing here?

otherwise, sell your machines and go back to consoles. they were intended to be repaired and maintained by people like me. it's not easy enough that your grandma can do it, contrary to what people may believe. if you look in the repair section you'll actually see recurring users that seemingly have nothing but problems with their games. it's because they don't know how.

Did I do something to piss you off? I understand that you are quite pleased with yourself and your abilities, but as you said earlier, it took you over nine years to gain this knowledge. Along with knowledge comes experience. I absolutely must attempt these things in order to learn. The local college isn't offering a class in 1979 electronic components. The internet doesn't give a shit about classic arcade games. This is my best source of knowledge.

I'm not trying to make any enemies here, just trying to ask questions that I can't find clear answers to when searching either Google or the forums. If you don't want to help, don't read my posts.
 
... 9 years ago I didn't know jack shit about video games...

Without a definitive guide, to everything arcade monitors, how are the new people to learn?

Operators with experience are literally dying off.

We need to embrace the next generation, so when we pass, they can continue our good work.

Otherwise we are all collecting coffins to be buried in.

Did I miss the end all be all monitor sticky covering everything from part identification to proper hookup, isolation, testing ect ect?

I am here to learn. If this is not a place to do that. Speak up.
 
"I understand that you are quite pleased with yourself and your abilities"

LOLOLOL

You need to do some research and spend some time at yard sales and thrift stores.
 
Mecha,

This is a help section not a piss on someone section.. He wants to learn and is asking questions.. answer the questions with your vast knowledge or don't post at all.
 
Post #36 of this thread contains everything the OP needs to swap tubes on 19" monitors.

  • Find old televisoins
  • get lucky and find a matching donor tube inside one
  • harvest tube from old TV, swap into arcade chassis

I'm going to be doing a tube swap on a 19" Wells Gardner 19K49xx series monitor this week, so I'll try an document my work via video.
 
regarding X-rays in CRTs....

It is a function of the HV... not the deflection. using the wrong yoke is only going to risk having a horrible image, or damage the deflection circuitry..... it won't change the voltage at the anode.

Nothing wrong with swapping tubes.... always better to use the correct yoke and reconverge.... but some chassis as I understand it are a lot more forgiving of yoke swapping than others.
 
Yes, back to the original topics: 1) is it possible to get some manufacturer to sell us a container full of CRT's that we'd like and 2) how can I learn enough to know how to do it.

For 2) I'll +1 on the suggestion to find Randy Fromm instructional videos. There was someone on here who was going to make some newer ones, but I don't remember who or if that happened. And the theories and technologies haven't changed. Randy's protective of his content so you won't find it for free anywhere. Find someone that will sell you the DVD (or VHS!!) of the Basics (if you need them) and the one(s) on repairing monitors. That should be enough to really get you rolling and then people can help you if you get stuck on some specific weirdness.

From that knowledge, I'd love to see if you (with our help) could write an RFP that would give a factory enough info to accurately quote and build monitors that we could use. I know there are a million RCA TV's laying around, but some people are willing to pay for a new one that works, as long as it doesn't suck. So that is still possible IMO. And yes, the likely factories are the ones already making 13" and 19" tubes for other stuff and would just need to make some factory line tweaks to do a run for us at 110V and the right frequency, etc... And please make sure we don't need isolation transformers! :D
 
STOP talking about getting CRT's manufactured. It's not going to happen.

Spend your energy locating large caches of 19" TV's that have suitable tubes instead.
 
STOP talking about getting CRT's manufactured. It's not going to happen.

Spend your energy locating large caches of 19" TV's that have suitable tubes instead.

Hahahaha!
STOP talking about reproducing artwork, metal, cabinets, joysticks, buttons, bezels, and those joystick spiders on the 49-ways.

Spend your energy locating large caches of used things instead...
 
Hahahaha!
STOP talking about reproducing artwork, metal, cabinets, joysticks, buttons, bezels, and those joystick spiders on the 49-ways.

Spend your energy locating large caches of used things instead...

Except all of the things you mentioned are still legal to reproduce. CRT's are not. It's not going to happen. People need to get over this.
 
Except all of the things you mentioned are still legal to reproduce. CRT's are not. It's not going to happen. People need to get over this.

hahaha again :D
I'm not interested in fighting with you. :) I'm just saying I hope someday it will happen. And clearly they are being made legally in several countries.
 
regarding X-rays in CRTs....

It is a function of the HV... not the deflection. using the wrong yoke is only going to risk having a horrible image, or damage the deflection circuitry..... it won't change the voltage at the anode.

Nothing wrong with swapping tubes.... always better to use the correct yoke and reconverge.... but some chassis as I understand it are a lot more forgiving of yoke swapping than others.


If you persist the chassis and yoke, but swap the tube wit another cr-23 socketed tube, are you essentially changing out a light bulb at that point?

I completely understand that this requires all of the calibration and convergence measures. I cannot seem to get a clear answer through my research on this part of the equation.
 
If you persist the chassis and yoke, but swap the tube wit another cr-23 socketed tube, are you essentially changing out a light bulb at that point?

In a manner of speaking, yes.

Everything from the original arcade monitor gets transferred over to the new tube.

The one exception is the purity ring assembly. The purity rings must remain with the tube they were mated to. Be sure to mark the ring assembly with a sharpie marker across the rings and on to the tube neck so you have a reference to re-install the rings in the correct position after fitting the arcade yoke on the tube. That will go a long way towards getting decent convergence right out of the gate.


But everything else: the yoke, CRT alignment strips, degauss ring, chassis, neckboard, frame, etc all get transferred over from the old arcade monitor.
 
As I understand it, there are some tubes with the same connector but a different pin out.... but I'm no expert, others would have to comment there.

I do know that there is a different grid (G2?) voltage on some tubes... 50V if I recall is the common one, but there is a 70V one as well. I have a 27" donor tube that I planned on putting in my Neotec NT-27E.... the tube is a 70V grid while the Neotec uses a 50V grid tube. However, I did have one KLOVer indicate that the situation worked fine for them. But, it is another factor to consider in a tube swap.

The obvious other differences are physical.... you can not use 'half flat' or 'true flat' tubes to replace a standard curved tube (the electronics lack the dynamic focus/etc necessary to handle the different distances parts of the screen have from the guns).

I'm told Sony Trinitrons are a no go. I have a Toshiba trinitron equivalent that I plan on trying someday in that Neotec.... not sure it will work, but I don't see why it wouldn't. (not sure what is different about Sony and why they won't work, I've never researched it).

In the physical side... there is the mounting ears.... they can face towards the back, the front, can be different lengths, or in the case of one of mine, more like a 'Y', using 2 screws in each corner instead of one.

So, not quite 'light bulb' territory :)
 
As I understand it, there are some tubes with the same connector but a different pin out.... but I'm no expert, others would have to comment there.

I do know that there is a different grid (G2?) voltage on some tubes... 50V if I recall is the common one, but there is a 70V one as well. I have a 27" donor tube that I planned on putting in my Neotec NT-27E.... the tube is a 70V grid while the Neotec uses a 50V grid tube. However, I did have one KLOVer indicate that the situation worked fine for them. But, it is another factor to consider in a tube swap.

The obvious other differences are physical.... you can not use 'half flat' or 'true flat' tubes to replace a standard curved tube (the electronics lack the dynamic focus/etc necessary to handle the different distances parts of the screen have from the guns).

I'm told Sony Trinitrons are a no go. I have a Toshiba trinitron equivalent that I plan on trying someday in that Neotec.... not sure it will work, but I don't see why it wouldn't. (not sure what is different about Sony and why they won't work, I've never researched it).

In the physical side... there is the mounting ears.... they can face towards the back, the front, can be different lengths, or in the case of one of mine, more like a 'Y', using 2 screws in each corner instead of one.

So, not quite 'light bulb' territory :)

Good point - I forgot about Trinitron tubes. They are a no-go. Only the classic 90 degree tubes will work for tube swaps on most 19" arcade monitors.
 
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