Aftermarket pinball boards vs Original boards.

freeplayinc

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With all the new pinball boards on the market (CPU, driver, & PS) I'm wondering what the general feel is for buying a pinball machine that has some if not all of the boards replaced with the newer versions?

I myself prefer the original boards over the replacements but that got me thinking what do the masses think?

Do you think it takes from, maintains the same or adds to the value of the game?

I do believe that a working machine with a replacement CPU board is far better than and worth more than a dead machine with an original CPU board with acid damage.

Is it me or does it seems that more people are now just replacing boards when something goes wrong instead of having it repaired?

Would anyone prefer a newer board over an a completely recapped and rebuilt original board? Maybe just for the freeplay setting or maybe the newer parts or reliability?

So what say you KLOV?
 
Well the newer boards seem to have their share of problems. Power supply sections that are to weak, sound that is wrong, etc.

But that being said if you get one with original boards even if they have been repaired, how long are they going to last? For instance, a lamp driver board on average has what 25-40 transistors, and 50 or so resistors. Now when I fix them it's not practical to replace them all, so I replace the bad ones. But they are 25-45 years old, the other ones are likely to go bad sooner or later.

So yea, your game with original "repaired" boards is working now, but for how long?
 
Only been positive for me.
Don't even try to repair a Haunted House boardset, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. I've had good luck replacing the 'modern' 90's Williams boards set too, theres a lot of voltages carried across and through multiple connectors a things get funky after many years & hack jobs.

To me, replacement boards in pinball do not effect the gameplay. So, from the video game perspective, its not much different than swapping out a power supply for a switcher...
 
personally i keep everything original if its possible and in most cases it is. this is suppose to be a preservation society i thought...:eek:

would you go buy a 63 corvette and pull the engine and put a new engine in it?? if you do its worth a fraction of original value AND it just doesn't have the same old feel and leaks...;)
 
personally i keep everything original if its possible and in most cases it is. this is suppose to be a preservation society i thought...:eek:

would you go buy a 63 corvette and pull the engine and put a new engine in it?? if you do its worth a fraction of original value AND it just doesn't have the same old feel and leaks...;)

Depends. If I'm giving it to my wife and don't want her stuck on the side of the road and broke down, then yes I'll put in a new engine. It's a piece of metal.

Sometimes you just want something dependable.

And let's be honest. The 63 Corvette has new hoses, new spark plugs, new tires, new lights, etc, etc. Come on, it's not original no matter how hard you try.
 
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I prefer the original parts. I send all my pinball stuff to Clive at Coin-Op Cauldron. He's always exceeded my expectations with his work and customer service.
 
+1 to this balanced approach

the "all/100% original" argument falls apart depending on how closely you want to look at it.

for everyone here that would look down on someone for (e.g.) swapping in a switching PS instead of repairing a linear PS ... that same dude could just as easily catch shit from someone for using repro'd (not NOS) sideart

how far do we take this? when we bondo and paint cabs, are we using original factory paint that would have been sitting in cans in the Atari factory over 40 years ago? fuses? screws? this may seem a bit pedantic, but I've seen plenty of KLOV arguments go this route hahahaha

does it work the way it was originally intended to work (all things considered), is it reliable, and are those playing it having fun? in my estimation ... case closed :)

Depends. If I'm giving it to my wife and don't want her stuck on the side of the road and broke down, then yes I'll put in a new engine. It's a piece of metal.

Sometimes you just want something dependable.

And let's be honest. The 63 Corvette has new hoses, new spark plugs, new tires, new lights, etc, etc. Come on, it's not original no matter how hard you try.
 
Try working on a Gottlieb system 1 pinball board and get back to me on that. Those spider chips are a pain to remove and fail often.
 
I have had rottendog boards in a few pins, and they have worked great. I don't care either way as long as the game works.
 
Sometimes it's simple economics. Here are a couple recent examples I dealt with:

I needed to replace 5 missing displays, so do I spend the $200 to get the entire new LED set or do I hunt the net paying $60-$75 each for 'probably' working used originals? LED.

The other side is that it's less expensive to fix/bullet-proof older boards than it is to buy an aftermarket replacement. $25 mpu on ebay and less than $5 in parts to repair\replace connectors & chip sockets to get that game running nicely again vs. $300 aftermarket. When you're talking about $600 street-price titles, price really comes into play in how you approach it.

Of course, there are a lot of people who have no idea how to troubleshoot and replace a locked-on transistor and opt to simply replace everything with all new aftermarket boards and still not fix the problem. I've seen plenty of project games loaded with aftermarket boards priced about what the boards themselves ran new...
 
+1 to this balanced approach

the "all/100% original" argument falls apart depending on how closely you want to look at it.

for everyone here that would look down on someone for (e.g.) swapping in a switching PS instead of repairing a linear PS ... that same dude could just as easily catch shit from someone for using repro'd (not NOS) sideart

how far do we take this? when we bondo and paint cabs, are we using original factory paint that would have been sitting in cans in the Atari factory over 40 years ago? fuses? screws? this may seem a bit pedantic, but I've seen plenty of KLOV arguments go this route hahahaha

does it work the way it was originally intended to work (all things considered), is it reliable, and are those playing it having fun? in my estimation ... case closed :)




for gottlieb system 1, its usually better to get a pascal board, better features, but I have repaired them, even when others said dont do it.

saved myself hundreds of $, but had the customs been bad... would have lost lots too


and fk buying NOS peelback art. too expensive, and old glue

its not going to stick right, use it to repo new art.

if the sign company is using good materials, you will get a good product.
 
theres a lot of voltages carried across and through multiple connectors a things get funky after many years & hack jobs.

Both work, but I prefer a clean original. This is why I invested in nice crimpers and trifurcon pins. Get those voltages there with the least resistance possible and you've eliminated one variable.
So far, I've got these in .156" and 0.1" :https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=3135-CT and am very impressed.
 
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This has been long debated before. I personally try to keep things as much original as possible. I would rather have an original board set that's been repaired than an aftermarket. Like someone said before, this is "arcade game preservation". The talent that some people have is incredible. Looking at some of the rebuilds is great. Just not something I would want.

I know some people will bring up the analogy about a classic cars and putting in old technology... blah, blah, blah. These are not cars. They are electronics plain and simple. Why not just replace everything inside with a PC and run MAME. It's shiny and new. On the outside, no one will know the difference right?

There does come a point in which we have no choice but to replace things with new technology. Eventually, we'll have to replace our tubes with LCDs or Neon displays with LEDs. That's just the way it is with progress.

The old stuff is built like tanks. On the off occasion that something breaks, you could fix it. Capacitors dry out, marginal components will fail and chips, sockets and pins will tarnish but, as long as you do regular maintenance on your machines, you can minimize the failures. Hell, the Voyager space probes are still going and sending back data 40 years later. The newer crap they send up in space with "new technology" either craps out or they have to plunge it to its doom. I just don't feel that the engineers today have the talent to build something that will last. The mind set is to make it quick and if it lasts a couple of years, great, we have your money. There are, of course, exceptions. People like JROK and Mike Doyle seem to take immense pride in their work.

Surface mount crap with no lead RoHS compliant solder it just that. Crap. For the people that want to take the John Hammond (Jurassic Park) easy way using boards that were built ridden on the backs of the engineers that originally designed them, let them live with the consequences of their decisions.

The new stuff, depending, is just not the same. Take the STERN Whitestar boards. On the old original boards, the battery was poorly placed. (Or was it?) They used the BSMT2000 chip. It's no longer manufactured. You could replace with with a new version of the Whitestar board but, in many games, the sound is off, wrong or even missing. This is because the new chip emulates the old BSMT2000. I would rather have an original repaired board that a new emulated surface mount.

The point is, they are your games. When it comes down to it, the only one that can decide what to use, is You. Do what you want. Original, aftermarket, there is no right or wrong, just resale value.
 
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It has been proven that some of the newer replacement power supply designs are *worse* than the originals and will never last as long as the original supplies did.
 
When I had pins I would always try and keep stuff stock unless I could not for whatever reason fix the board.

I used Rottendogs a few times because end of the day a working game is better then one just sitting there... and you can always fix the original board later.

Rotten dog boards can be hit or miss though quality control wise.. I had a few that were DOA brand new and had to be exchanged.
 
i like the original boards the most as long as the battery damage is controllable, its usually easy to repair most of them (gottlieb excluded) and i have no problem with owners replacing boards with aftermarket sets but please keep the originals with the machine. to me replacing the original boards adds no value over having working original boards

have seen problems with most all of the after market boards so nothing is perfect
 
i like the original boards the most as long as the battery damage is controllable, its usually easy to repair most of them (gottlieb excluded) and i have no problem with owners replacing boards with aftermarket sets but please keep the originals with the machine. to me replacing the original boards adds no value over having working original boards

have seen problems with most all of the after market boards so nothing is perfect

THIS. Place the original boards sans batteries in the bottom protected.

I keep wanting to order drom GPE. But i have yet to hear back from him on an email I sent.

His value molex style connectors are the cheapest I have seen... But I want to know turn around time and not wait to get an orser processed.... Then long periods of time to get my order shipped to me.

Which is why I keep going back to security's site.

He said same day shipped as ordered... And i'll be darnes if it was. Got it to me exactly when I needed it for my day off too.

Thats the premium im not butt hurt about paying.... It hurts a little... But its nothing compared to the cost of a game. Will buy from him again.
 
I keep wanting to order from GPE. But i have yet to hear back from him on an email I sent.

GPE Email?
OK -- I think I missed something... I only have one outstanding email from today and nothing previous. Could be one that was overlooked and accidentally got flagged as 'read'.

Ed (GPE)
 
THIS. Place the original boards sans batteries in the bottom protected.

I keep wanting to order from GPE. But i have yet to hear back from him on an email I sent.

Try again. I've ordered from Ed before. Never had a problem. I he's a good guy and a great asset to this community.
 
I personally prefer originals whenever possible, simply because they're so well documented (both officially and unofficially).

For most aftermarket products, the manufacturer doesn't provide schematics, and there are far fewer out there to get help from others' experiences... so when it does break, you're on your own to either find an original board to put back in, buy another aftermarket board (if they're still available), or troubleshoot the board without documentation.

And in many cases, the reason that someone installs an aftermarket board is because they lack repair skills, and end up doing a horrible hack job on the installation (holding boards with zip ties, just twisting wires together and using electrical tape - or not, etc). Maybe this doesn't apply directly to the plug and play pinball boards, but it certainly has been my experience with games I've gotten with aftermarket monitor chassis', power supplies, etc.

DogP
 
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