A Star (Wars) is born.. A repro PCB repair log

@lilypad19 , where did you get that ribbon cable interconnect kit?

He made it. That was something I wanted to do for years but never got around to it. But he came up with the same idea and actually built it. Now I send everyone looking for SW repairs to him, because I hated working on them. :)


Just as a reference, you can't get all of the chips needed from Digikey and Mouser, a lot are simply not available. Especially the math box chips.

The chips that aren't available new are typically the ones that are (or should be) socketed. PROMs, 2901's, DAC's, etc. That's the stuff you want socketed, and you want to test any that you buy (whether old stock or new from China) before you use them.

Regular TTL chips, as long as they come from Mouser/Digikey/etc, are rarely bad, and you're relatively safe not testing every one, and soldering them in.


I like @andrewb and admire his work. That said I knew this thread would trigger his "you should have just repaired an original one". Yes you can buy a board set for $500-600 and then send it out for repair. But what is learned? Building your own set even if it had to be repaired afterwards is a fantastic learning experience. Myself, I feel that the money spent is like like paying for school.


The thing is, soldering a bunch of parts to a board doesn't teach you that much.

If you want to learn to solder/desolder, watch a couple of youtube vids and practice on a junk board, where you can make mistakes, pull traces, and actually get experience doing things the wrong way (which is important), while you figure out the right way.

If you really want to learn *troubleshooting*, a repro board is a terrible way to do it, because there are likely multiple problems, and that makes figuring things out exponentially harder. Original boardsets tend to have fewer things wrong (a majority of them tend to have one core thing that is preventing them from booting), and they are easier things to figure out.

Troubleshooting one of these repro boards is more advanced, because there are usually multiple things wrong at the same time, and is usually involves fake parts, and/or incorrectly installed parts, neither of which you're going to have on an original board, which you know was working at one point.

If your goal is learning, the best thing is to buy a dead original boardset and dive into trying to figure it out. That's how I learned. I studied the archives here, Vectorlist, RepairFAQ.org, sci.electronics.repair, FTP archives of repair docs, and various repair weblogs for years, while I lurked here.

And then I've spent 8 years *practicing*. Repair is a craft, like playing a musical instrument, and you only get better by sucking at it at first, then continually doing more of it. That's what I love about this hobby, as even after many years and hundreds of boards I am still learning new things and improving my skills. I still get boards that kick my ass. But I stick with every one until I figure it out, and the hardest ones end up teaching me the most.

There is so much knowledge out there that people have taken the time to write down, that hardly anyone reads or looks for anymore. Mountains of info literally at your fingertips, but people just don't want to spend the energy to google and study it. They'd rather go to Facebook and ask their friends (who don't know anything). And now it's going to be an AI that gives you shit information. But skills can't be downloaded. They have to be practiced.
 
It would have been nearly impossible to fix this without that chip tester, back in the day whatever tech had this would have been screwed and the game would have stayed unplayable. Back then though, that many mislabeled chips may have not been available to ever put in the board in the first place, however, so who knows. Just crazy. No way I would have figured any of that out.
 
For those who want to know these are my boards. For anyone who wants to spread criticism or talk shit.... Go fuck yourselfs. :)

Now with that said......

I bought these repro boards as a fun side project and the challenge. Nothing more noting less. I was curious if I could put this together and have it run. I had my doubts and as you can see my buddy @lilypad19 had to bail me out. Lol

I followed the BOM as best I could but some chips had to be sourced from other places than Digitkey or Mouser.

For the record I already had Andrew's repaired pcb's working in my cab when I was messing around with these boards.

My only real regret is not being next to lilypad when he was fixing these boards so he could walk my through the repair process. But his awesome thread right up serves as a good detailed repair log.

So are these repro boards doable. Yes. Not for the faint of heart for sure. If it's for the challenge go for it. If your trying to save money.... Hell no... Buy an original and have it repaired. Lol

I did ask lilypad to repair this as a favor. And I told him no hard feelings if the boards turned out to be nothing more than wall art. But he did an amazing job fixing these and I'm grateful for that. Thanks again @lilypad19
 
Been on the road a couple of hours - but I was hoping this thread would go in this direction :)

I think there are sorta two paths here:
- People who want to learn how to build a kit, solder, make a board - the repro board is a good option
- People who would like to get into PCB repair, even if it is at the 101, 102 level.

My thoughts are this:

Repro boards - Even if you've done some practice soldering on other PCBs, I actually think the repro boards are not a bad idea. If there is one you really like, Gravitar, Build one! From a soldering point of view, a brand new clean PCB that is well made is a good way for a clean start. I'd stick with a single board stack vs. Star Wars. There is WAY too much that can go sideways on a three board set. If you mess up a repro Gravitar, it's a bit easier to potentially dig out of. It's still an expensive way to learn - but people spend more money on dumber things.

Board repair - If this is something you are interested in... do not pick a complicated board. Seems everyone wants to learn on Asteroids. For something that was released in 1978 - they made a very complex computer architecture on that PCB. In modern terminology - they created a virtual machine inside the the actual machine. It was exceptionally clever.. What got me hooked was my very first repair - I fixed my first arcade machine I purchased. Centipede..

Centipede PCBs are plentiful and inexpensive. I think I repaired 5 of them before I tried something different. The 'computer' on a Centipede board is very simple architecturally and there is a mountain of things to learn from that board. They all baseline everything else in PCB repair IMHO.

Let me know if I miss any of the questions:
Chip Tester - This is the one I use 90% of the time. It covers all of the common stuff and is super easy to use.

When I need to test other chips
TL48/TL866 Tester - I break this one out and it covers a different set of chips and some PROMs/PALs..

I think the Retro Chip Tester may be a good solution for people who have no chip testers at all. I have a few different testers and there is too much overlap.

My Star Wars Interconnect... Once I got to the point where I knew I'd be working on Star Wars sets, I did NOT want to have a stack of boards flopping around the bench. I spent a stupid amount of time teaching myself KiCad and designed those interconnect boards. Technically, that is the second revision.

Here it is with all three PCBs connected:

IMG_5575.JPG

My goal was not to design three boards, but to design one board that depending on how I set it up, could be in all three positions. The actual Star Wars backplane connector has straight through connections across its backplane. The two large boards are back to back .. which means all the pins are cross connected and the sound board and CPU board are in parallel. The AVG board's right connector is connected to the CPU boards left connector (cross connection) and the CPU board right connection is connected to the sound board's right connection (parallel connection). A single PCB design used 3 different ways. I was quite happy with myself :p

I can also leave the sound board off completely because of the ribbon cables. For fun I put a power LED..
All that said - I'm not an electrical engineer or a PCB designer. This setup works nearly all of the time. I can use the FPGA CATBOX and do significant testing. On some stacks - the board will run at game speed. But some PCB stacks, it crashes. At CATBOX speed I can repair pretty much everything. Then stack the boards and go from there.

So what is the cause? Ribbon cables for sure - resistance, capacitance, inductance, impedance, latency? I don't have the slightest idea. But I gave it a shot and this setup has made fixing Star Wars sets much easier. If I were an EE.. I'd figure out how to add LS244's and drive the signals, etc..

I've learned a ton from KLOV and @andrewb 's posts as well as many many others here. @LyonsArcade - big fan. You have no idea how many hours we've spend together on a weekend morning while I've been doing board maintenance.. One little phrase I've been using at the day job and I think you do this exceptionally well in the videos - "you do a lot of teaching and not a lot of telling"

I like writing up these 'different' repairs because someone will search and find them at some point. I've done it.. I had an oddball Centipede repair that I had no idea what it was.. Some guy who had only posted once in 2007 knew the issue and pointed some other person in the right direction. Giving back is not that hard..

Thanks for letting me ramble a bit ;)
 

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What type of IC tester are you using? I use the one built into my eetools device programmer, but it has a limited part library. Good for the basic TTL families.

For TTL and analog ICs, I have ABI Chipmaster Digital and ABI Analog/Linear testers. I was fortunate to snag these many years ago for a good price. Otherwise, they're pricey.
I also have Neoloch Inquisitor for RAM etc. Highly recommended.
I also have TL866 but have never needed to use it for IC logic testing. Only ROMs.
I also have a cheapo Asian IC/CAP/Transistor tester. Sometimes it's accurate, sometimes not. I use it when I'm too lazy to try the ABI. LOL

586_chipmaster.jpg s85-2285p01wc.jpg
 
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