6100 Tube swap using 90 deg tube

[bakerhillpins]

Ok, so I recall reading some traffic about using a 90 deg tube in a 6100 and there being debate about it working or not. Mostly I recall a few saying it does but I couldn't find anything posted on KLOV that actually confirmed this with images. We know the 6100 and the Amplifone yokes are compatible electrically (Cockpit Star Wars employ a 25" 100 deg tube and use the 6100 yoke) so I'm just going to stick with using Amplifone hardware. One could just replace it with the 6100 because of this compatibility so that's out of the problem scope. It really boils down to being able to dial in the purity I suspect.

And with that in mind I decided to give it a go. I'm testing Amplifone Flybacks for APAR and in the process I've killed an NOS tube which really burned my biscuits. As a result I've been sourcing burned old 90 deg tubes to use as test mules rather than good usable tubes. This means that I'm swapping in a variety of old CR23 tubes into my Star Wars upright and doing a quickie convergence to get it setup. I'm getting kinda good/fast at this now. As I was stuffing in the last tube I decided after I got the thing converged with the Amp yoke I'd mark the rings and slip on the 6100 yoke and see if I could get it to work. The initial Amp setup would provide me with the knowledge that the tube would work in the OEM configuration.

Well, I'm happy to say it worked. And it wasn't difficult at all. I just had to back the yoke off the neck a tad to cleanup the purity. Stuffed in a wedge and it's been fine. I'm not leaving it that way as I have the yoke cobbled in with clip leads. LOL

The only real issue I see with this is that the tube is physically longer. Thus the neck board will poke out a bit farther from the back of the 6100 frame. I suspect this would be an issue in Tempest cabs. If the cab was converted to MH then I suspect it will fit because the neck isn't stuffed right up against the back of the cab like it is in the vertical orientation.

Gravitar/Space Duel/etc cabs shouldn't have an issue as IIRC they may have shipped with Amplifone monitors and thus would fit a 90 deg tube. Hopefully this will help save some 6100 setups.

 

[bakerhillpins]

Of course, you'd also have to deal with the fact that either the WG neck board socket will need changed (might be able to pull it from the donor TV) or you'd need to pull the plug/male end off the tube and swap in the one from a dead/necked 6100 tube. I've pulled the male plug off of tubes but it's a slow process unless you're not concerned about the survival of the tube.

 

[VectorCollector]

Please elaborate how the NOS tube was killed with a prototype flyback.

 

[bakerhillpins]

Please elaborate how the NOS tube was killed with a prototype flyback.

So the failure that killed the NOS tube was the focus pin breaking off. This was due to a lot of swapping in and out of different HV units to both test new and debug older units with focus problems. Lesson learned.

Other issues exist though that I happened upon while testing. Including excessive heater voltage which after several hours toasted the tube. In fact that's the reason for the swap above.

 

[bakerhillpins]

Please elaborate how the NOS tube was killed with a prototype flyback.

It would seem by re reading your question that you were looking for a direct correlation to the death of the NOS tube. It did break during testing of the prototype unit but there was a LOT of cycles before and during that contributed.

and in the process I've killed an NOS tube

In the 2nd case it was a direct result of the excessive output.

 

[bobbyb13]

Sad about the tube but thank you much for sharing your experiences.
Still wrestling with franken-vectors here myself and have two each of Amp and 6100 setups and can't make up my mind what to do for which machine still.
Although I get a functional picture with consumer set donor tubes I can never get purity and convergence to my liking.

 

[bakerhillpins]

Although I get a functional picture with consumer set donor tubes I can never get purity and convergence to my liking.

Perfection is the enemy of Good here. After spending a bunch of time swapping and hours converging and re converging I've started to pay strict attention to OEM tube setups when I see them. Lots of good FS posts where folks rebuild low burn OEM monitors and use the TPGs to show off the pic. I now notice all the details of the images WRT convergence. In reality, they're not as perfect as we give them credit for. Raster images are much more forgiving to poor convergence than vector. The #1 resason for this is that in most cases Raster monitors don't get used with games that have black backgrounds. vectors always do. #2 vector monitors have thin line graphics where raster use block/sprite based graphics. These 2 things make a HUGE difference in how we (me only maybe?) preceive the convergence of a tube.

I've had good and even fantastic results with consumer TV tubes. I don't have time this morning to grab a pic of my MH swap but it's beautiful. I've also learned what tubes to skip just by inspection. But I am still learning with each step, no doubt. I'll get some pics of my MH tube this evening. Have a fleet of cars to convert to winter setup today.

 

[bakerhillpins]

I promised a pic of my consumer TV success on my MH. Here is the result which I obtained with the following steps

• marked the ring assembly position/ orientation on the tube
• Remove rings assembly
• Remove existing yoke without disturbing the rubber wedges
• Slide the Amplifone yoke up against the wedges (in the proper orientation) so that it's snug against them in their existing position. Tighten
• Replace the ring assembly that came with the tube based upon the marks made in the 1st step. Tighten.

That's it.

 

[alfonzotan]

Not bad at all. Nice work.

 

[bobbyb13]

Looks excellwnt.
Wish I could follow your protocol here but I am now working with a 25" that used to have a bonded yoke.

 

[bakerhillpins]

I typically skip over bonded yoke tubes. However, I've found that the 25" bonded seem to have compatible yokes to many of the 25" WG chassis. (not the 25k5515 though) But my sample size is very small. Really only have a need for 1 25" monitor but have a few.

 

[bakerhillpins]

Ok, so back to the 6100 90 deg tube swap convo...

Needed to get a MH (tempest conversion) running. The 6100 tube was completely toast. Red/Green guns were 0 and Blue was faint. I honestly think the blue was just someone turned up the HV to see the lines because the Maze is not blue. Plan was to fully test this 90 deg swap theory. So pulled the monitor and started.

Before we get to the end result, you can read about the journey in the what-fixed-your-game-today-general-repair-log

Used a leftover 19VLTP22 that I had stuffed in my Star Wars. I ended up using this tube because the one we started with was assumed good and in actuality had a bad green gun.

Basic setup... Swapped out the CR-24 for a CR-23. Learned from a debugging session that CR-23 SOCKET PINs 4/12 are NOT supposed to be used at all on a 6100. Thus, pins 4/12 on the CRT neck are NC, so I folded the socket legs for PINs 4/12 under and installed. In the OEM configuration the leg for "PIN 12" on the CR-24 socket is connected to GND/GRY wire in the schematics. When usin gthe CR-23 socket DON'T solder in this pin...

As the 90 deg tube is different in a few dimensions I had to shim out the tube face with a few washers. About 1/8" total. This allowed the HV cage a small amount of clearance. If you don't use the washers it still works but the HV cage does lightly contact the tube.





And here are the results after a quick convergence.

 

[Texas_Funnyhair]

Ok, so back to the 6100 90 deg tube swap convo...

Needed to get a MH (tempest conversion) running. The 6100 tube was completely toast. Red/Green guns were 0 and Blue was faint. I honestly think the blue was just someone turned up the HV to see the lines because the Maze is not blue. Plan was to fully test this 90 deg swap theory. So pulled the monitor and started.

Before we get to the end result, you can read about the journey in the what-fixed-your-game-today-general-repair-log

Used a leftover 19VLTP22 that I had stuffed in my Star Wars. I ended up using this tube because the one we started with was assumed good and in actuality had a bad green gun.

Basic setup... Swapped out the CR-24 for a CR-23. Learned from a debugging session that SOCKET PINs 4/12 are NOT supposed to be used at all on a 6100 so I folded PINs 4/12 under and installed. In the OEM configuration PIN 12 is connected to GND/GRY wire in the schematics.

As the 90 deg tube is different in a few dimensions I had to shim out the tube face with a few washers. About 1/8" total. This allowed the HV cage a small amount of clearance. If you don't use the washers it still works but the HV cage does lightly contact the tube.

View attachment 788252 View attachment 788253

View attachment 788254 View attachment 788255

And here are the results after a quick convergence.

View attachment 788256 View attachment 788257 View attachment 788258

Thanks for the side by side picture, definitely a big difference between 90 and 100 degree tubes! Picture looks great on the 90 degree tube.

I think the 90 degree tube would fit in a Tempest cabaret fine since it's basically the same cabinet that was used for Centipedes, so raster monitors already fit with no problem. I know other people have just relocated everything off the frame when putting a 6100 into a cabaret cabinet horizontally so that could be the easier option with this setup.

 

[bakerhillpins]

I'll be reinstalling the monitor in the Tempest to MH conversion cab on Monday of next week. I can follow up afterward with any fitment issues I find.

 

[mopar5150]

Great write up, well done.

 

[VectorCollector]

This is what Vector KLOV is all about.

 

[Scumolabs]

That convergence looks better than a lot of OEM 6100s I've seen.

 

[andrewb]

Great work!

Regarding the tube with the snapped focus pin, do you have any plans to try to repair it?

I helped another member here a while ago repair a snapped pin using conductive epoxy. The epoxy was expensive (about 80 bucks, IIRC). But it worked in the end.

 

[bakerhillpins]

Regarding the tube with the snapped focus pin, do you have any plans to try to repair it?

Long since recycled. All of my luck seems to be bad with respect to tubes lately.

 

[mopar5150]

Long since recycled. All of my luck seems to be bad with respect to tubes lately.

That is so funny that you say that, it does seem to go that way. Not tubes for me but damn near everything else.
I had a month of nothing but 6100 weird disasters that got so bad I just put everything in a box and sent it to andrewb.