2716 eBay China

I ordered a set of these from China for giggles and it appears that there are 3 different die types. I do have some what I believe to be original NM2716Q that also have different die types which also match some of these.
 

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I'm not trying to be a troll but how do you know that the Chinese manufacturers of the clones (NOT the remarks) didn't licence it? STMicroelectronics does have offices all over the world including China. Is there proof the clones (NOT remarks) are non-licensed and not just speculation based on the feeling "China always counterfeits"? One thing I didn't check was the date code which may tell but I don't have any of the parts in front of me. Again, not trying to be a troll because I will be the first to admit I don't know squat about parts licensing. Thanks, - Commander Dave

They do not license parts to be sold like this...period.
Licensing parts means the license holder (not fabricator) is liable for for any of these parts if they go awry. There is no way the lawyers would allow this to happen. We never did when we made parts for many years.
Many were made in China (yes, we had offices there as well). Many were made in Ireland and other places as well...funny how those parts aren't popping up in appropriate numbers.

We had numerous problems with Chinese fabricators but not with other fabrication locations:
1 -- lots of parts mysteriously disappear between being manufactured and being received at our end (or stocked over there).
2 -- rejects were supposed to be destroyed. Often they were thrown in boxes but we never actually saw them destroy them.
3 -- Never seen it with our parts but we have heard from other mfrs that the fab houses would sometimes overproduce dies without reporting it. Since these are non-sanctioned parts - these could be a source for what appears to be new parts but are not sanctioned by the license holder - these would count as counterfeits. But this wouldn't account for the massive quantities of parts appearing.

When we discontinued a part or revised a die - we demanded the source photomasks and source files as well as remaining dies & wafers. Hard to tell if they didn't copy the source files... any guesses?

Chinese parts are not always counterfeits.
Many are pulled and cleaned parts often sold as new. As long as the vendor/logo isn't changed, this is a misrepresentation but does not qualify as counterfeit.
 
There's a good chance they're just refurb'ed socket pulls as well...
China is a huge destination for "recycling" and a lot of their IC stock comes from cleaning up stuff taken off those "recycled" pcbs.

I bought a small quantity of these "new" ST chips from China to check out, and you are absolutely correct. They are refurbished chips. They have gotten very good at this.... Legs are straightened, flared out (to give that "NOS look"), and refinished (giving them a satin appearance). Bodies are washed of all previous markings (probably using acetone) and all stamped with the same identical fake ST markings. If you look very closely at the legs you will find anomalies; some slightly slanted, out of alignment with each other, and even some twisted a bit. And I found some issues with the refinishing as well. Anyone who has ever bought real NOS chips before knows that they come absolutely perfect. Oh, and another clue that they're not legit; they come in unmarked tubes.

It's too bad really.... For the price they are asking, I'd gladly pay for pulls with their original markings. It's unfortunate that they feel the need to be deceitful.
 
I've bought a LARGE quantity of these and the following doesn't match my experience.
I bought a small quantity of these "new" ST chips from China to check out, and you are absolutely correct. They are refurbished chips. They have gotten very good at this.... Legs are straightened, flared out (to give that "NOS look"), and refinished (giving them a satin appearance). Bodies are washed of all previous markings (probably using acetone) and all stamped with the same identical fake ST markings. If you look very closely at the legs you will find anomalies; some slightly slanted, out of alignment with each other, and even some twisted a bit. And I found some issues with the refinishing as well. Anyone who has ever bought real NOS chips before knows that they come absolutely perfect. Oh, and another clue that they're not legit; they come in unmarked tubes.

It's too bad really.... For the price they are asking, I'd gladly pay for pulls with their original markings. It's unfortunate that they feel the need to be deceitful.
 
I've bought a LARGE quantity of these and the following doesn't match my experience.

Please elaborate. What is "large" to you? (for reference, my test sample was 100) What makes you believe you have received NOS chips? Have you purchased NOS IC's from legitimate sources before?
 
Checked the chips out electronically today. They are stamped "ST M27C64A", but the manufacturer ID read from the chip does not match ST... comes back as National.
 
Checked the chips out electronically today. They are stamped "ST M27C64A", but the manufacturer ID read from the chip does not match ST... comes back as National.
I have same issue with the 2764s I bought. Fail ID test on my elnec ... but topic of this thread is 2716 and these have no such issue.
 
I have same issue with the 2764s I bought. Fail ID test on my elnec ... but topic of this thread is 2716 and these have no such issue.

Yes, the original question was about 2716. But the discussion has revolved around the legitimacy of all these remarked "ST" chips coming out China, whether they be 2716, 2732, 2532, 2764, 27256, etc. I don't have a need for any 2716, so I'm not going to bother buying any to check out. But I have personally seen the 2732 and 2764 "ST" parts now. They are all cleverly refinished parts masquerading as new. And the pictures I've seen of the 2716 parts lead me to believe they are no different. Maybe some of them actually were originally ST parts, but none of them are NOS or new "clones" (which is ridiculous). These restamped parts are all reclaimed chips that have been refurbished by the Chinese recyclers. Have yet to see any evidence to the contrary.
 
Yes, the original question was about 2716. But the discussion has revolved around the legitimacy of all these remarked "ST" chips coming out China, whether they be 2716, 2732, 2532, 2764, 27256, etc. I don't have a need for any 2716, so I'm not going to bother buying any to check out. But I have personally seen the 2732 and 2764 "ST" parts now. They are all cleverly refinished parts masquerading as new. And the pictures I've seen of the 2716 parts lead me to believe they are no different. Maybe some of them actually were originally ST parts, but none of them are NOS or new "clones" (which is ridiculous). These restamped parts are all reclaimed chips that have been refurbished by the Chinese recyclers. Have yet to see any evidence to the contrary.

The China "ST" Eproms I got doesn't seem to be refinished remarks to me at all. I have bought the 2716's and 2732's and they are all identical and look brand new. The legs don't even have scuffs. I noticed above that you mention "clones (which is ridiculous)". I use the word "clone" in a loose way and what I really mean is something like new copies or newly manufactured fakes. They certainly aren't ST but they behave like ST's. People make new fake copies of all kinds of electronics (and other items) and I can't see this being any different. I guess my point is that every one of the fake ST's I got are not pulls that have been reclaimed, cleaned and remarked. They are all to perfect and identical. Not an expert, just my 2 cent observation. -Dave
 
Not an expert, just my 2 cent observation. -Dave

+1. I'm still waiting for some independently verifiable facts. Expressing an opinion as a fact doesn't make it one.

GPE has a point that it's not good when US sellers peddle these, apart from this I view the last couple months of this thread to be a bit of a waste of time.
 
I'll try to take some close up pics to show you guys what to look for. I go through thousands of chips, mostly NOS from electronics surplus dealers or new from authorized supply houses. Best deals I get are on programmed but never inserted EPROMs... remove sticker, erase, and you have chips indistinguishable from new. Unfortunately, those deals are rare.
 
FWIW...

Just got in 10 ST M27C801's from China. Die's are identical, chips look identical, appear new to my non-bulk buying eyes, all checked out fine as far as the device ID matching for an ST M27C801.

All blank-checked fine, and the one I burned as a quick test burned/erased without issue...

Not sure if the 0430/0348 refer to 30th week of 2004/48th week of 2003, but since ST has been mentioned specifically in this thread, thought this may be of interest. Also have 0413, but most are 0348's.

Sample:
 

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Just got in 10 ST M27C801's from China. Die's are identical, chips look identical, appear new to my non-bulk buying eyes, all checked out fine as far as the device ID matching for an ST M27C801.

Those markings look legit to me. Determining whether or not they are actually new would require careful inspection of the legs. But, assuming you didn't pay much for them, new vs pulls doesn't really matter.
 
Just got in 10 ST M27C801's from China. Die's are identical, chips look identical, appear new to my non-bulk buying eyes, all checked out fine as far as the device ID matching for an ST M27C801.
Those look like the legit ST M27C801s that I purchased 15+ years ago.

DogP
 

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I asked one of the sellers of about the origins of the M2716A EPROMs and other counterfeit looking parts. Calls it "China copy".


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"The China Copy is a new part,some small factories produced with some same functional die
usually these works,but,most of chips are not steady with short lifetime
however lots of buffers,amplifiers,ROMs,set-reset ,MCU works good
lots of Rectifier,MOSFET,Regular has China Copy now,seems these are good as long as the Voltage is right"
 
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