2716 eBay China

I doubt they're legit ST parts, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are new... or new-ish. I've got some "ST" M27C256B parts from China, which have the same pink colored text, which I've never seen on any real ST parts. But what I've noticed on a lot of the Chinese parts is that the dies are small compared to most vintage parts, which leads me to believe that they're not simply relabeled used pulls from the 80s. Maybe they're defective dies that have have enough good addresses to put in a smaller EPROM... though I would have expected differences from chip to chip in that case. Every time I've bought any, all chips of the same type look identical.

Interestingly, the die and bond wires of the "ST" 2716s pictured above do look like an actual vintage ST M2716 1F1... so maybe they're unsold "last buy" stock that was supposed to be destroyed, or couldn't be resold as marked, or something weird like that. That would explain the newer look (my legit M2716 is from late 1991, which I'd expect would be near the end of the 2716 lifetime). It's very obvious that they were remarked though.

I haven't personally had any issues with these Chinese EPROMs. I've had some that have tops that look like they were painted black, some that look like they were sanded smooth then remarked, etc... but functionally, they've been fine.

Attached is a pic of a few EPROMs from my stash for comparison of die, logo/text, etc. They're all legit vintage chips, except the fake pink text Chinese "ST" M27C256B in the middle.

DogP
 

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Actually -- that second one from the left (your pink part -- more of a light tan-ish color on mine) may be fine. Lettering looks a lot like the end-of-life parts made by ST. Color, marking, die size and layout, date code which requires a secret decoder ring -- all match the 27C512's that I bought when the last time buy was issued. Mine were bought from ST's master distributor.
 
Actually -- that second one from the left (your pink part -- more of a light tan-ish color on mine) may be fine. Lettering looks a lot like the end-of-life parts made by ST. Color, marking, die size and layout, date code which requires a secret decoder ring -- all match the 27C512's that I bought when the last time buy was issued. Mine were bought from ST's master distributor.
Hmm... that's interesting. The print looks low quality (like the '5' that looks half printed), and similar to dorkshoei's 2716 chip, which looks like it was double printed or something.

DogP
 
There are definitely remarks out there and there are definitely new clones parts out there.

The new clones have a dye that is visually unlike any 2732 eprom I have seen. It is tiny! The newest ones I got now say program at 12.5v, but I am still doing 25v burns. I can erase and reburn them numerous times at 25v without any trouble. The erase very quickly too compared to old eproms I pull off of boards.

Picture of three new clones.
Legs splayed out. Legs have the same finish like new make transistors do, the matte type look. Tiny dye. Available in mass amount bulk. Ship in new tubes in fake STM boxes. I have gotten them from domestic resellers and china. So people in the USA or buying shit loads and reselling them back. Normally 95% of them work that look like this.


The other picture is of a used remark pull with the same kind of imprint.
Typical china remark solder dip rinished legs. Huge dye like the old school parts. Poor success rate with many refusing to take a burn even tho they read back blank.
 

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Update-

Parts showed up today. All identical, all look new.

All blank checked fine - pulled one (only ordered 10) - burned fine, erased/blank checked fine afterwards.

I have no immediate use for these (just making sure I have sufficient stock on hand, since the pulls I have left are showing their age), but no obvious concerns. If I get bored, I may burn/erase the rest of them, and update accordingly. At less than $2 each shipped, I think it's hard to complain.

Folks are noting a 10% fallout rate - I had similar luck when ordering EPROM's from Bob Roberts. And for those, it was often a very obvious physical defect on an otherwise new chip... Can't say where he was ordering his from though.

Interesting timing...

I just burned some 2532's for a Tempest board (converting from 2716's, since I had some flaky sockets that aren't used by the 2532's), and ordered 10 2532's from "huayi-components" on eBay. Just under $16 shipped, and I'm in no rush as I'm just replenishing my stock. We'll see!

If ordering these older parts prompts them to do new runs of otherwise hard to get legacy parts, and the quality is good, I can't see how that's a bad thing...
 
There are definitely remarks out there and there are definitely new clones parts out there. <snip>

Every EPROM that I have ordered from China has not been old chips that have been remarked but they seem to be new clones. They look new and unused and except for the case of the 2716's I got they have burned fine.

The 2716's would not burn at all under any setting I could find so they refunded my money and let me keep the chips. I use the legs now to repair custom chips on my Dig Dug and other repairs. :) I have some more 2716's on order and we will see how they work out.

Oh - I almost forgot my point. I am careful where to order so if they say "new" and if I get sanded remarks or such I will be asking for a refund. If no refund, it's off to a PayPal dispute. Just my two cents... your mileage may vary.

-Commander Dave
 
I don't get it.

The worldwide market for these is not large enough to warrant a huge run of these parts & get all the tooling ready/done for them. That takes a lot of time & money. For a device that sells at $1.6 shipped this is absurd and unlikely.

Why?
 
I don't get it.

The worldwide market for these is not large enough to warrant a huge run of these parts & get all the tooling ready/done for them. That takes a lot of time & money. For a device that sells at $1.6 shipped this is absurd and unlikely.

Why?

I just added it up and this seller alone has sold over 15,000 between their 10pack and 5t0 pack auctions. There are countless other china retailers on ebay, ali, etc selling them too. Apparently the market is there.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-M2732A-2F1-M2732A-EPROMs-ST/280867576962



Story I was told is that they get their hands on a functional die and make parts with possible poor quality control.
 
I just added it up and this seller alone has sold over 15,000 between their 10pack and 5t0 pack auctions.

Indeed.

Story I was told is that they get their hands on a functional die and make parts with possible poor quality control.

There is a lot of conjecture on this thread and not a lot of fact, plus let's face it, sellers of convenience/premium priced items targeted at arcade collectors have a vested interest in painting these items as fake, remark, defective, whatever.
 
There is a lot of conjecture on this thread and not a lot of fact, plus let's face it, sellers of convenience/premium priced items targeted at arcade collectors have a vested interest in painting these items as fake, remark, defective, whatever.

Well, there is one thing that is perfectly clear. These "ST" parts from China are definitely FAKE, without a doubt. ST does not even have any fabs in China. And anyone familiar with real ST parts is not fooled for a second by those bogus stamps.
Are they functional chips? Sure. But since their origin is sketchy, their quality will be in question. I can understand why a legit business would refuse to gamble on them.
 
ST does not even have any fabs in China

China has been assembling electronics since the 70s. Not everything they assembled was locally fabbed. I've personally bought legit date code chips from China, chips that are clearly marked non-Chinese origin.

Note, I am not claiming that the ST chips are *definitely* anything, odds are they are not genuine, but the above statement isn't proof of anything.
 
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There is a lot of conjecture on this thread and not a lot of fact, plus let's face it, sellers of convenience/premium priced items targeted at arcade collectors have a vested interest in painting these items as fake, remark, defective, whatever.

good point.
 
I have some more 2716's on order and we will see how they work out.
-Commander Dave

I finally got ten 2716's in from China which have that brand new look (probably clones) and they program fine at 21v. I guess the first five I got a long time back were just defective but I did get my money back..
-Commander Dave
 
There is a lot of conjecture on this thread and not a lot of fact, plus let's face it, sellers of convenience/premium priced items targeted at arcade collectors have a vested interest in painting these items as fake, remark, defective, whatever.

Ummm, no.
Many of us resellers sell at higher prices because we *paid more* for genuine parts and bought them from traceable sources rather than Chinese sellers. Often we pay a LOT more for the genuine parts rather than the prolific Chinese crap floating around now.

A fake or remark using a known trademark such as "ST" is the definition of a counterfeit.
Those who are within the US that are reselling fake or remarked parts (counterfeit) are blatantly committing a crime and that morally corrupt reseller can be sentenced with a fine and/or jail time (and this has been pursued much more diligently by customs the past couple years).

As far as individuals buying these Chinese EPROMs for their own use - doesn't matter as long as the individual buys them for his own use, knows the risk and doesn't resell them.
 
Well, there is one thing that is perfectly clear. These "ST" parts from China are definitely FAKE, without a doubt. ST does not even have any fabs in China. And anyone familiar with real ST parts is not fooled for a second by those bogus stamps.
Are they functional chips? Sure. But since their origin is sketchy, their quality will be in question. I can understand why a legit business would refuse to gamble on them.

There's a good chance they're just refurb'ed socket pulls as well...
China is a huge destination for "recycling" and a lot of their IC stock comes from cleaning up stuff taken off those "recycled" pcbs.
 
Ummm, no.
Many of us resellers sell at higher prices because we *paid more* for genuine parts and bought them from traceable sources rather than Chinese sellers. Often we pay a LOT more for the genuine parts rather than the prolific Chinese crap floating around now.

A fake or remark using a known trademark such as "ST" is the definition of a counterfeit.
Those who are within the US that are reselling fake or remarked parts (counterfeit) are blatantly committing a crime and that morally corrupt reseller can be sentenced with a fine and/or jail time (and this has been pursued much more diligently by customs the past couple years).

As far as individuals buying these Chinese EPROMs for their own use - doesn't matter as long as the individual buys them for his own use, knows the risk and doesn't resell them.

I'm not trying to be a troll but how do you know that the Chinese manufacturers of the clones (NOT the remarks) didn't licence it? STMicroelectronics does have offices all over the world including China. Is there proof the clones (NOT remarks) are non-licensed and not just speculation based on the feeling "China always counterfeits"? One thing I didn't check was the date code which may tell but I don't have any of the parts in front of me. Again, not trying to be a troll because I will be the first to admit I don't know squat about parts licensing. Thanks, - Commander Dave
 
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