2716 eBay China

jasonsmith01

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Does anyone have any experience with the ebay 2716's? I read on either pinside or eevblog that they're being reproduced now. Curious if they're any good.

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Below is a list of sellers compiled from experiences posted in this thread.

Sellers with almost 0 fail rate:

- ic-china (most expensive of the bunch)

Sellers with appr 10% fail rate:

- huayi-components

Do not buy from these sellers:

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No - they aren't being reproduced.
They take old parts off boards, clean them up and sell them as new parts.
Some will work but some aren't even the correct part number - they'll remove the part number and remark with whatever is in demand at the time (e.g. definition of 'counterfeit').

If you don't mind the fact that you may or may not get the correct or functional parts for yourself then buying from them is ok. If you buy parts with the intent of reselling them - you can face up to 10 years in jail and a $1M fine. So be careful with what you buy.
 
I've used the seller "ic-china" for a long time, never had a dead/fake/trashed chip. All his stuff is erased, cleaned (no sticker residue) and he even provides metal foil stickers to cover the window after you program. He is more expensive than some others, but prices are very reasonable.

I'd pull up the exact datasheet for any 2716s you buy, I don't think every manufacturer did them the same way. I vaguely recall some 2716s were tri-power, and others just needed 5v.
 
No - they aren't being reproduced.
They take old parts off boards, clean them up and sell them as new parts.

Not my experience.

I've bought probably 80 of the ST M2716-1F1 from eBay Chinese sellers. They all worked fine. They're not pulls however I wouldn't want to bet on them being genuine ST. I've had some Chinese labelled ST chips not match the expected ID, I think they were 2764s.

I've bought a fair number of 2732s and TMS2532s also. None were pulls. I did get about a 10% fail rate on the 2532s. As always, test whatever you buy within the refund period.
 
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Does anyone have any experience with the ebay 2716's? I read on either pinside or eevblog that they're being reproduced now. Curious if they're any good.

I have had great luck with China reproduction EPROMs except for the 2716's. I believe that they reproduced "something" and mislabeled them at 2716's. The vendor sent all my money back as said I don't have to return the chips.

I may try again later on if I need some more but then again, I think I remember seeing a post that someone was selling pulls cheaper than going through China. You might do some searching on the forum here and see if you can find the post.

-Dave
 
I don't gamble on those fake "ST" chips from China. Burned once... learned my lesson. I'll gladly pay 2x or 3x that price to get legit chips from reliable sources.
2716 are getting much tougher to find now though. Fortunately, still got a pretty big stash of pulls laying around. Honestly don't have much use for them.... Can't remember the last time I needed to burn one.
How many do you need? What for?
Oh, and I've got an even bigger pile of 2708. Those probably belong in a museum. :D
 
Hey Matt my motive is simply to have some (20 or so) 2716's on hand for board fixes and would rather not buy a board and take it out of commission just for ROMs. I'll PM you Matt, thanks.

I have no problem keeping a list of good and bad sellers if there's interest in doing so. The "ic-china" seller seems quite different from the rest in a better way but the cost isn't too far off from buying from Twisty or Jameco.
 
There is one Chinese seller, funkward-tech, that I have bought IC pulls from (not necessarily EPROMs) and would buy from again. Always received good quality chips from him.
 
Interesting timing...

I just burned some 2532's for a Tempest board (converting from 2716's, since I had some flaky sockets that aren't used by the 2532's), and ordered 10 2532's from "huayi-components" on eBay. Just under $16 shipped, and I'm in no rush as I'm just replenishing my stock. We'll see!

If ordering these older parts prompts them to do new runs of otherwise hard to get legacy parts, and the quality is good, I can't see how that's a bad thing...
 
How about a few facts?

I just went through my records, I've bought sixty 2716s in the past 18 months from 3 different Chinese eBay sellers. Last purchase in November 2017 was https://www.ebay.com/itm/192269804442

I've not had issues with any. All were labelled ST M2716-1F1. All had splayed legs which required to be bent inwards before they would install.

I read a comment online that they don't program as 21-fast. I didn't look at this (I will when I have more time), all I know is that they program correctly using my BK 866 (a clone of the Elnec BeeProg) using the ST Microelectronics M2716 algorithm.

They verify correctly using a Data IO 29B as an Intel 2716. I just programmed one and it works fine in my Tempest.

As I said before, no clue if they are authentic ST. Attached are some pics. Hope this helps.
 

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That is some pretty cool hardware you have. Curious if the success results would be different on a minipro TL866. It maxes out at 21v, even with legit chips I need to write multiple times to get it all to take.
 
ordered 10 2532's from "huayi-components" on eBay..

I just ordered another 40 2532s from the above supplier. First 40 had 10% fail to burn rate which sucked. A few failed the blank test but this doesn't necessarily mean they are pulls. Legs are all splayed out per new. I've ordered a bunch of z80As from the same seller also (the Sharp branded ones) and I think 5% didn't work. Seller has been good about refunding or shipping additional but I've been able to provide photos showing the fails. On this next 40 (44) 2532s I don't have an immediate need and not sure I have the patience to test burn all, so I may have to eat any fails.
 
FWIW, I've seen about a 10%+ failure rate on the EPROMs I typically order from our Asian friends. For whatever reason (perhaps being a Canadian, eh), I accept that ... LOL :001_sbiggrin:
 
No - they aren't being reproduced.
They take old parts off boards, clean them up and sell them as new parts.
Some will work but some aren't even the correct part number - they'll remove the part number and remark with whatever is in demand at the time (e.g. definition of 'counterfeit').

If you don't mind the fact that you may or may not get the correct or functional parts for yourself then buying from them is ok. If you buy parts with the intent of reselling them - you can face up to 10 years in jail and a $1M fine. So be careful with what you buy.

This is not totally correct. There are midnight run clones of M2716(A) and M2732(A). They are a brand new made chip, not a pull, labeled like STMicro part, but you can be guaranteed they are not legit STM parts. The boxes they come in have some engrish on them and the usually one of the registered trademark logos is printed upside down.

There are plenty of US based people selling these bootleg clones not getting in trouble (Jameco is on the naughty list as well as a lot of eBay). I got parts that came repackaged in the same fake STM box that was originally labeled as 7805V. So the people cloning the M2716 eproms are probably the ones doing the clone voltage regulators and transistors.
 
another thing about 2716 is that you can use a typically more common 2732 with the data doubled up 99% of the time. I have better luck with China clone M2732A. I usually have to burn them at 25v tho or they burn really slow or don't take the burn. I use the generic 2732 profile with a GQ-4X.
 
This is not totally correct. There are midnight run clones of M2716(A) and M2732(A). They are a brand new made chip, not a pull, labeled like STMicro part, but you can be guaranteed they are not legit STM parts. The boxes they come in have some engrish on them and the usually one of the registered trademark logos is printed upside down.

That pretty much makes them counterfeits. Regardless of how well you may think they work or don't work - you are still sending cash to counterfeiters to propagate the issue.

Note the photos of 2716s -- 2014 date codes.
These were discontinued more than 20 years ago.

No - they are not making new parts. They have gotten real good at refinishing used parts to look new including the legs. Having worked in the semiconductor industry for several years, I do not believe for one minute there are midnight runs of any clones - just remarked rejects or other parts. The effort involved for a 'midnight run' to retool the product line is too involved for short runs --from die to packaging.
 
That pretty much makes them counterfeits. Regardless of how well you may think they work or don't work - you are still sending cash to counterfeiters to propagate the issue.

Note the photos of 2716s -- 2014 date codes.
These were discontinued more than 20 years ago.

You said yourself that these have not been available for 20 years so I'm not sure what the issue is that you're claiming people are propagating by buying them.

They should remove the logos, leave them generic, beyond this I couldn't care less.

And they're not used :)
 
You said yourself that these have not been available for 20 years so I'm not sure what the issue is that you're claiming people are propagating by buying them.

They should remove the logos, leave them generic, beyond this I couldn't care less.

And they're not used :)

The issue I have with counterfeiters is that there are some people that actively support the counterfeiters.
It has nothing to do with the individual buying one or two knockoffs for their own use. As long as they know what they are getting or are not getting. But I draw the line at those that buy the cheap Chinese parts and resell them as new, genuine parts - individually or on boards that they repair,rebuild or build and resell. Yes, I know at least two of them in the arcade & pinball machine business.

Yes - they SHOULD leave them as is with original marking so people really know what they are getting. The remarking is what makes them counterfeits. They are purposely misrepresenting parts. You'd be amazed at the amount of rework they can do to an IC to make it look new -- the ceramic body of EPROM's is the easiest of parts to remark, Legs are easy to clean, dress up and get back to their original 10degree pitch.

Surprisingly, there are a few Chinese sellers that are somewhat honest about them - sell them as used, pulled parts. And there are a few sellers that remove the markings and put their own name/part numbers on them. I have no problem with that, either - they are at least not claiming to be somebody that they aren't.
 
Yes - they SHOULD leave them as is with original marking so people really know what they are getting. The remarking is what makes them counterfeits.

I don't believe the chips I've received are remarks so and as new manufacture I'd prefer they just marked them as generic.
 
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