25" Amplifone/Wellsgardner Vector Monitor Yoke winding and information

Smitty420

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
2,272
Reaction score
249
Location
Petaluma, California
25" Amplifone/Wellsgardner Vector Monitor Yoke winding and information

I am now going to log my adventure in yoke winding part 2.

I am starting with my standard Amplifone setup and test my PAT9000 setup that went into storage not 100%. Not fully working. I have neck boards for 8 pin tubes but the first tube will be a 25" match and will test with a wound yoke from the past and compare that to a WG6100 yoke that I got off another member on the site here.

I first started testing things with my standard setup and got the 13" tube up so I could test my StarWars Board set and get the ESB kit working properly. I also have external test systems I think it's a WICO copy. The WICO copy is outputting signals that are a little funny as to the centering and size.
The standard setup tested the 13" tube and I got an image I was happy with.
I then plugged it into the 25" tube with the wrapped yoke and I fooled around for a bit but when I changed the yoke to the WG6100 yoke the 7924 blew almost immediately. I then dug out the PAT9000 setup that I got from Darrin and fully expected problems with it as well. Dug out the 12 Pin neckbeard and Vola it was working right out of the box. I am amazed, not surprising it came from AmazingArcading. No pun intended. So now I am testing 25" tube with the PAT9000 and getting results I can work with. I unwound the yoke #1 and think I had the wire but need to rethink the winding thing. The original Yoke are 0.5 ohms and 1.5 ohms so the WG6100 reads very low. Not surprising as my Cinamatronics reads something close like 0.5 and 1.25. My first try was one row straight across. I think that I need the same number of winds but two rows to mimic the 6100 yoke. Pictures will follow.
 
Last edited:
these are the pictures of the 13" monitor and the standard amplifone setup
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2968.jpg
    IMG_2968.jpg
    509.3 KB · Views: 116
  • IMG_2967.jpg
    IMG_2967.jpg
    504.8 KB · Views: 138
  • IMG_2971.jpg
    IMG_2971.jpg
    504.1 KB · Views: 99
  • IMG_2970.jpg
    IMG_2970.jpg
    508 KB · Views: 105
  • IMG_2969.jpg
    IMG_2969.jpg
    505.9 KB · Views: 116
This image is with the WICO test box yoke #1 first wrapping with standard setup.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2972.jpg
    IMG_2972.jpg
    502.2 KB · Views: 63
This is the PAT9000 setup with the 6100 yoke and no tabs. just some wedge adjustment. likely playable and could be set with as many as 5-7 shielding strips.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2977.jpg
    IMG_2977.jpg
    514.7 KB · Views: 47
  • IMG_2978.jpg
    IMG_2978.jpg
    515.3 KB · Views: 40
  • IMG_2979.jpg
    IMG_2979.jpg
    512 KB · Views: 40
  • IMG_2980.jpg
    IMG_2980.jpg
    511.1 KB · Views: 40
Last edited:
Here are Game Pictures It is pretty tight at the top but starts to break up at the bottom. could be the rings that cause this kind of misalignment. Definitely makes a difference when converging as to where the rings are on the neck. Will rewind Yoke #1 and see if I can get closer results to a Square and all my lines without wraparound.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2973.jpg
    IMG_2973.jpg
    508.1 KB · Views: 96
  • IMG_2976.jpg
    IMG_2976.jpg
    507.7 KB · Views: 85
  • IMG_2975.jpg
    IMG_2975.jpg
    491.2 KB · Views: 67
  • IMG_2982.jpg
    IMG_2982.jpg
    510.1 KB · Views: 79
No I must edit. 6100 yoke. Not sure why I got that number stuck in my head before I started writing. Try to be patient. I'm lookng for solutions that have eluded me. Now I have some room to work.
 
Last edited:
Not into vectors but I'll drop here a suggestion: 13" VGA tubes (off PC monitors) should be considered as a source for donor tubes as the horizontal yoke inductance and resistance are very low (~0.3mH/0.5ohm), apparently a much closer match than most TV tubes which are ~2.5mH/3ohm. And the vertical yoke is also much lower (~5ohm) but probably not as low as a vector tube. Other features are M-type tubes (i.e. very fine pitch) and CR23 socket (there are no dual focus 13" tubes).
 
Not into vectors but I'll drop here a suggestion: 13" VGA tubes (off PC monitors) should be considered as a source for donor tubes as the horizontal yoke inductance and resistance are very low (~0.3mH/0.5ohm), apparently a much closer match than most TV tubes which are ~2.5mH/3ohm. And the vertical yoke is also much lower (~5ohm) but probably not as low as a vector tube. Other features are M-type tubes (i.e. very fine pitch) and CR23 socket (there are no dual focus 13" tubes).

Good information as 13" monitors will be good for cabaret vectors. I'll have to look into it when I get back to 13" tubes.
 
Best result yet

More new info

Counting turns on the WG6100 yoke my best guess without ruining a working yoke

11 turns then start the crossing pattern neatness counts

Make sure to leave enough room to cover the whole quarter before the middle cross and the 2nd quarter.

One could almost just measure the length of 11 turns and work that out later I found it easier to leave it bunched up on the end of the ferites.

30 turns even with room for second row to fill in the gaps

One turn to cross then start second quarter, same as first 30 turns

Cross back with One and a half turns to start over crossing the end of the first cross in the middle

I marked the first layer with a sharpy to keep the layers organized

Run the second row overlapping in between the first row, i.e. First row wire section no row, first row second row.

You want to be left with one flat layer the on the ferite of alternating rows crossing in the middle following the first crossing wire

Then run out the second row second quarter same as the first.

BEST RESULT YET

After the second double row on the second quarter finish with 11 turns.

Each ferite should be about 1 ohms hopefully a little more when tied together in parallel they should be about 0.5 ohms.

I think the original wire is about 0.45mm but the wire I used for this particular wind was 0.47mm 24 gauge mag wire

My yoke ended up being 0.5 vertical hand wound
0.7 horizontal original wound

I put it on the tube on the bench, same one the 6100 yoke was in on. Not sure it was the original tube for this particular yoke. I wish I knew what tube it came from.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpeg
    image.jpeg
    434.3 KB · Views: 107
  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    303.7 KB · Views: 121
  • IMG_3007.jpg
    IMG_3007.jpg
    506.5 KB · Views: 81
  • IMG_3025.jpg
    IMG_3025.jpg
    512.3 KB · Views: 84
  • IMG_3009.jpg
    IMG_3009.jpg
    505.3 KB · Views: 77
Last edited:
Pictures of the image not sur why I only get one image uploaded. Will do more later

Converging was done with 6 strips so far with problems in the upper right and lower half.

Game is very playable and as close as I've gotten yet to proper deflection.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    223.2 KB · Views: 69
  • IMG_3016.jpg
    IMG_3016.jpg
    501.4 KB · Views: 42
  • IMG_3014.jpg
    IMG_3014.jpg
    513.8 KB · Views: 41
  • IMG_3013.jpg
    IMG_3013.jpg
    510.3 KB · Views: 44
  • IMG_3020.jpg
    IMG_3020.jpg
    501.2 KB · Views: 51
Last edited:
So I wrapped another yoke similar to the last one same ohms reading on the Horizontal ferrite, Same procedure and same result. Nice Box about same readings as 6100. Much looser around yoke housing manipulating outer ferrite gets me closer to convergence. I think that this is crucial as to having a properly converged yoke. the more I manipulate the outer ferrite the better the box the better the convergence the better everything.

I need a mirror for my bench to get better perspective while converging.

I took the two 19" small ferrite yokes they ohm twice what I want for the horizontal ferrite and the original hand wind with mag 22 wire is too big, ohms are way to low. 1 to 2ohms I need more like 5 ohms when done. reading one ferrite with 22 mag 57mm wire is about .5 to .6 ohms so when in parallel is more like 1 to 2 ohms way too low.

I am now wrapping a yoke with the same 24 mag wire 47mm and I get readings more like what I want 1.2 ohms so I figure when I get two in parallel I will get the .5 ohms I want. Then the only problem will be the horizontal.. I will just have to live with that. I also have two similar large tube yokes with rings attached. I will be winding them next to see what kind of result I get with the large tube yoke on both small neck tube CRTs and Large Tube CRTs. Then I will rewrap a normal large tube yoke with this method to see if results are consistent.

I like the Idea of starting the wind and ending the wind with up to 11 straight wraps as this allows me to shave off some of the wire if necessary or I could actually add a few wraps but I don't see that happening, just subtracting wraps on smaller ferrite to make the wrap fit. Maybe the solution on the smaller ferrite would be using 26 mag wire to get the full wind on the ferrite without sacrificing winds and keeping the ohms to an acceptable level..

This theory will just have to wait.....

As soon as I have a few different type yokes wound with acceptable results I will hook them up to my Yoke tester to see if they are truly similar in inductance and resistance. If they check out and I can get them to align properly to converge them I might be at a place to consider selling yokes for assembling monitors from recycled tubes. I might need people to send me the yoke to be wound as collecting old TVs proves to be a chore just to find the things in-between work and the commute.
 
Here are pictures of Yoke #2 with no strips and very basic convergence.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3037.jpg
    IMG_3037.jpg
    505.9 KB · Views: 39
  • IMG_3035.jpg
    IMG_3035.jpg
    509 KB · Views: 32
  • IMG_3034.jpg
    IMG_3034.jpg
    503.2 KB · Views: 32
  • IMG_3033.jpg
    IMG_3033.jpg
    503.7 KB · Views: 34
  • IMG_3032.jpg
    IMG_3032.jpg
    509.3 KB · Views: 32
Thats looking good ! what are you planning to do for the pincushion correction ?

Some of that goes away with manipulating the ferrite. But I will have to use strips at some point. I get pincushion fr the 6100 yoke too but as long as the guns are converged sme pincushioning is negligible. You probably never notice it while playing the game, but this is the best box I have gotten so far. When I get a mirror and spend some time with the yokes I expect to square things up and get to a finishing point. Just trying to keep moving as it's easy to get bogged down looking for perfection. I'm just trying to find the easy path to acceptability. After that perfection should be close probably not obtainable but close. If I can get stars converged on 3/4 of the screen will be happy if I can get 7/8ths I would be estatic. If I can get the same results n 19" tubes then my major havoc will be closer to be a game I can consider finished. I need a god 19" tube and my 25" tube is closing in on the finish line.
 
I think I wasted the day with the 19" CRT small neck tube yoke.

I wound it like the 25" and all I could get was 5 extra winds on the ends and it was harder to get the neat wind with any space in-between wires.

I did however get about right with the ohms as I got 1.2ohms per ferrite and that gave me .6ohms at the end. But I think the problem is with the Horizontal winds I'm left with given this particular ferrite and tv it came from. I think it is pretty common as I have 3 of them from the televisions I collected and started with.

We might be left with salvaging yokes from 25" televisions for all of our hand winding purposes to be successful and predictable. I am going to try this particular yoke on the 13" tube next and see if it is usable there. If not I won't be able to use the yoke at all even tho it has semi acceptable results.

I will have to compare them on the Sencore Universal Video Analyzer yoke tester, to see how they vary from one to the other. Thinking more about it I am getting close to the appropriate ohms but inductance has to be different as the ferrite size is considerably smaller so I can never get the same about of copper on the ferrite. Physically impossible without just bunching it up. So Neatness would be out and I think that is important in getting the deflection nice and even across the field..That leaves me to think that the Horizontal ferrite is the problem, As my vertical hand wound ferrite seams to giving me a nice image from top to bottom but the deflection from side to side seems to have gaps.

I had all the bars before with the ferrite wound with the thicker wire and wound straight across with the 1 1/2 back winds to the beginning and then straight across again.

The theory behind this would be to get enough wire on the yoke to get the ohms up to be out of range closer to the Horizontal wind thus canceling out the extra winds or giving back enough inductance in the field to get the horizontal and vertical scanning at the same rate thus filling in the gaps. Does that make sense?

Otherwise we have to find a way to knock off some of the ohms in the vertical scanning so that we get the whole image being the vectors that are missing or weird. I now know that this kind of imaging is most likely a yoke problem and not a board problem but I will test this with another board next week.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3038.jpg
    IMG_3038.jpg
    505.2 KB · Views: 64
  • IMG_3043.jpg
    IMG_3043.jpg
    503.5 KB · Views: 78
  • IMG_3045.jpg
    IMG_3045.jpg
    507.3 KB · Views: 72
  • IMG_3047.jpg
    IMG_3047.jpg
    511.5 KB · Views: 59
  • IMG_3048 (1).jpg
    IMG_3048 (1).jpg
    516.2 KB · Views: 64
Last edited:
Damnit this yoke had the guns lined up near perfect I wish I could use it the dimension is nice and the box is square just missing vectors. Color guns lined up so close. These two yoke can't seem to get rid of the fold over in the corners on the BIP setting page. The missing bars are missing the ones masked are still visible.

Any input on this would be appreciated.

My only other thought would be to use smaller wire and see if the patter could be maintained with the extra winds on the ends. Or maybe try one with smaller wire or the same going straight across with no breaks. Seemed I was getting the best results with larger wire straight across. Im a little perplexed at this point.

Next 25" yoke on this tube
This yoke on 13" tube
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3050 (1).jpg
    IMG_3050 (1).jpg
    510.4 KB · Views: 53
  • IMG_3051.jpg
    IMG_3051.jpg
    514.1 KB · Views: 41
  • IMG_3053.jpg
    IMG_3053.jpg
    504.8 KB · Views: 42
  • IMG_3055.jpg
    IMG_3055.jpg
    505.8 KB · Views: 36
  • IMG_3052.jpg
    IMG_3052.jpg
    504.3 KB · Views: 39
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom