19K6400 Repro boards?

dezbaz

Well-known member

Donor 4 years: 2011, 2013-2014, 2016
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
8,889
Reaction score
529
Location
Ballajura, Western Australia, Australia
Chad from Arcadecup posted a nice Hi Res manual he recently found.

You get good clear pics of the boards

So it's possible to make them if you guys are interested

Could these be used in a G08 Game with an adapter? The voltages are close

The HV board looks pretty straight forward, as do the other 3 boards

The HV cage is almost the same, just an extra 1/2" hole

Differences on the whole monitor include:
  • There is no 8 pin connector at the bottom of the HV, just 4 wires leaving from a hole in the HV case
  • There is no over-volt protection on the HV
  • The Deflection transistors are doubled up
  • The voltage supply is higher
  • The HV uses no -24V rail or even -40V. It uses GND there
  • The Defl. has the original Low Voltage section (Like in a WG6100 Deflection) and uses 46V zeners instead of the 28V
  • The interface board handles the incoming X&Y signals
  • So there is only a 12 Pin Monitor connector instead of a 15 Pin as a result
  • The interface board creates its own +13/-13V for the Op Amps to run
  • The CRT is not a CR24, it's a CR23
  • The neck board has brightness adj, like the late model WG6100s do
  • The yoke is different to a WG6100 and Amplifones, even G08s
  • The HV has a 150V zener instead of a 100V
  • The flyback looks the same (EDIT: Confirmed, is the same)

In conclusion
If this monitor could be built, it's a closer match to the G08 monitors voltages

There may be a chance to use these to replace the G08 since the Custom ICs are unobtainable etc

Or they could be used in the cabs they were designed for as well

I would suggest some kind of modified LV circuit as the outputs from the Power Transistors are around +/-47V DC as opposed to WG6100's +/-27V DC

It would be nice to have a constructive conversation about this please

Let me know what you think
 
Last edited:
If WGK640x boards could be made, that would be phenomenal. It's clearly a superior version of the K610x monitor, with some considerable differences.

Scott C.
 
It would be great, but the trouble I see is that the yoke is different. The deflection board is designed to drive a particular yoke of a given impedance and inductance, and unless those characteristics of the 6400 yoke are known having its deflection board would be of no use.

The same is true for the HV transformer, and the horizontal driver for that matter. Because it's clearly derived from the 6100 (even reusing T900 and T901 numbering), it's tempting to think they might be the same but who knows?
 
If some of the issues being brought up could be resolved/agreed upon I know I would definitely buy some of the boards and support the project. Even if going into it there are still unknowns, it would be worthwhile just to have the boards to play around with (rewind yokes, try others, etc.).
 
Already discussed but mentioned here again ...

Ideally, we need a new technology vector monitor design (deflection and HV) using 2017 components, PWMs, drivers, etc.

Such should re-use common tubes (and adaptable to various tubes). Perhaps re-use common HVT flyback(s). Also likely would adapt to integrating present 6100 yoke (and/or/unless we can get a company to reproduce or remake).
 
It would be great, but the trouble I see is that the yoke is different. The deflection board is designed to drive a particular yoke of a given impedance and inductance, and unless those characteristics of the 6400 yoke are known having its deflection board would be of no use.

The same is true for the HV transformer, and the horizontal driver for that matter. Because it's clearly derived from the 6100 (even reusing T900 and T901 numbering), it's tempting to think they might be the same but who knows?

Is it possible it has the doubled up deflection transistors and 47/0/47 Supply so it can drive a higher impedance yoke?

Would be nice
 
Last edited:
Ideally, we need a new technology vector monitor design (deflection and HV) using 2017 components, PWMs, drivers, etc.

Such should re-use common tubes (and adaptable to various tubes). Perhaps re-use common HVT flyback(s). Also likely would adapt to integrating present 6100 yoke (and/or/unless we can get a company to reproduce or remake).
+1111111111111

In 2017, I would think a monitor could be designed to be compact, accurate, and solid as a rock (trouble free). But then again, that's me. 😎

Scott C.
 
Ideally, we need a new technology vector monitor design (deflection and HV) using 2017 components, PWMs, drivers, etc.

Such should re-use common tubes (and adaptable to various tubes). Perhaps re-use common HVT flyback(s). Also likely would adapt to integrating present 6100 yoke (and/or/unless we can get a company to reproduce or remake).

This is not possible by me, I wish I could

Be my guest if you have these skills :)

:eek:
 
This project is a night time project while I am renovating an apartment with every daylight spare moment I have

Any progress will be after:

The Universal WG6100/Amplifone HV (Attempt 2)

Yoke winding machine

Anyway there is progress on this WG6400 project

The PCB file is made for the HV P324

I think a prototype needs to be tested as it is, and if it works using a WG6100 HVT (flyback) then mods can be made. A few mods are done already

Here's a screenshot

 
Last edited:
I'm in for 3.... of anything. I've wanted to see this project for a while now. I may be in for more adaptors if it can be used to convert a standard K6100 to 6400s.
 
Referring to your new P324 screenshot, that's some damn nice looking work there. I'm always amazed how your software allows you to mimic the look of original boards so well. Amazing stuff.


Bill B.
 
I'm in for 3.... of anything. I've wanted to see this project for a while now. I may be in for more adaptors if it can be used to convert a standard K6100 to 6400s.

I will try the flyback in the 6400 board

Not sure if the WG6400 would work in a WG6100 machine, the voltages are too different :(
 
I just reread and re-reread the thread. And while I'm not tech....nor do I claim to be, here's some conclusions I've been under for a while now from my reading in other faq's, and posts in the past. I may be wrong, and if so, feel free to correct me.

The 19K6400's intended purpose was to be a replacement for the Electrohome G08 since it had such a spotty record. A replacement to save all of those Sega Vectors like Star Trek, and eliminator. I'm assuming this design came about at a time when games were dying and Vector games even more so. Ergo, not many of these made it to production. I've heard that those that did were cleared out very cheaply at one point. And since these were designed to replace the G08, my guess is that the input plug for these will match the input plug for the G08. Can anyone who knows the G08 verify if the plug is the same with the same pin outs.

The Slew rate of this monitor is faster than the 19V2000 Black and White monitor according to page 60 of the "Wells Gardner Color Vector Monitor Guide". Which makes it the fastest vector monitor listed....although to be fair, the Ampliphone's slew rate is unlisted. The K6400 was supposed to be Hi Res, and considering it's nearly twice as fast as the K6100, I could see them calling it Hi Res....Not sure if it's any faster than an Ampliphone which I've heard called a med res monitor.

According to "The Wells Gardner 19K6400 Color X/Y monitor or Oh God, Not another color X/Y monitor!" faq, the Atari power brick has an input of 25-0-25 VAC RMS for the input voltage. The 19K6400 monitor uses 40-0-40. The G08 uses 45-0-45 VAC. I can't recall where right now, but I have heard/read that the main reason G08s catch fire is that the games were designed to run at 100VAC like the other Japanese games. But when they are plugged into our 120 VAC outlets, the input voltages are raised up overdriving the amplification circuits and causing them to catch fire. Alas, I can't find this article right now.
Could this drifting voltage cause a problem for the K6400, or would a transformer be needed to drop the voltage to the 40-0-40 VAC. I've never heard anyone say these came with their own power transformer. I did read about one guy who said he had like 20 of these at 1 point and used them in Sega games back in the day.

Dezbaz and another poster said that the transistors were doubled up. Are you talking about the bottle cap transistors. I thought this design used the same 6 bottlecaps except they had the X on the end of them(so 2N3716X and 2N3792X). They were just mounted to 3 identical heat sinks and had a fan to force cooling them. So what does the X denote....Quick recovery, heavy duty, High speed....? So does this thing use 6 bottlecaps or 12?

Dezbaz mentioned unobtainable custom ICs. Where these ICs on the G08 or the K6400? Which one can't be reproduced?

Did this thing have the modified LV protection circuit, like the later revisions of the K6100. If not, would a modified version of the LV2000 be a good addition? Not sure if that was what Dez already suggested.

So for clarification, assuming this was made to replace the G08, does the interface board take the input voltages from the Sega game, and mod them to work with basically a sped up K6100. What is it doing exactly. If it is just modifying the input signals, could the overall design (of the high voltage and deflection, and yoke) be used to make a K6100 that operates just as fast. I know the 6100 could benefit from a bottle cap cooling pack....Looking at Takeman on this one. ;)

Is this using the same tube as the K6100 with a different winding on the yoke. Dez mentioned that this uses a CR23 instead of a CR24. Which monitor used the CR24. The K6100 or the G08? Not clear why its an issue as most monitors are CR23...correct?

Not trying to be dense or anything....just trying to understand.
 
I just reread and re-reread the thread. And while I'm not tech....nor do I claim to be, here's some conclusions I've been under for a while now from my reading in other faq's, and posts in the past. I may be wrong, and if so, feel free to correct me.

The 19K6400's intended purpose was to be a replacement for the Electrohome G08 since it had such a spotty record. A replacement to save all of those Sega Vectors like Star Trek, and eliminator. I'm assuming this design came about at a time when games were dying and Vector games even more so. Ergo, not many of these made it to production. I've heard that those that did were cleared out very cheaply at one point. And since these were designed to replace the G08, my guess is that the input plug for these will match the input plug for the G08. Can anyone who knows the G08 verify if the plug is the same with the same pin outs.

The Slew rate of this monitor is faster than the 19V2000 Black and White monitor according to page 60 of the "Wells Gardner Color Vector Monitor Guide". Which makes it the fastest vector monitor listed....although to be fair, the Ampliphone's slew rate is unlisted. The K6400 was supposed to be Hi Res, and considering it's nearly twice as fast as the K6100, I could see them calling it Hi Res....Not sure if it's any faster than an Ampliphone which I've heard called a med res monitor.

According to "The Wells Gardner 19K6400 Color X/Y monitor or Oh God, Not another color X/Y monitor!" faq, the Atari power brick has an input of 25-0-25 VAC RMS for the input voltage. The 19K6400 monitor uses 40-0-40. The G08 uses 45-0-45 VAC. I can't recall where right now, but I have heard/read that the main reason G08s catch fire is that the games were designed to run at 100VAC like the other Japanese games. But when they are plugged into our 120 VAC outlets, the input voltages are raised up overdriving the amplification circuits and causing them to catch fire. Alas, I can't find this article right now.
Could this drifting voltage cause a problem for the K6400, or would a transformer be needed to drop the voltage to the 40-0-40 VAC. I've never heard anyone say these came with their own power transformer. I did read about one guy who said he had like 20 of these at 1 point and used them in Sega games back in the day.

Dezbaz and another poster said that the transistors were doubled up. Are you talking about the bottle cap transistors. I thought this design used the same 6 bottlecaps except they had the X on the end of them(so 2N3716X and 2N3792X). They were just mounted to 3 identical heat sinks and had a fan to force cooling them. So what does the X denote....Quick recovery, heavy duty, High speed....? So does this thing use 6 bottlecaps or 12?

Dezbaz mentioned unobtainable custom ICs. Where these ICs on the G08 or the K6400? Which one can't be reproduced?

Did this thing have the modified LV protection circuit, like the later revisions of the K6100. If not, would a modified version of the LV2000 be a good addition? Not sure if that was what Dez already suggested.

So for clarification, assuming this was made to replace the G08, does the interface board take the input voltages from the Sega game, and mod them to work with basically a sped up K6100. What is it doing exactly. If it is just modifying the input signals, could the overall design (of the high voltage and deflection, and yoke) be used to make a K6100 that operates just as fast. I know the 6100 could benefit from a bottle cap cooling pack....Looking at Takeman on this one. ;)

Is this using the same tube as the K6100 with a different winding on the yoke. Dez mentioned that this uses a CR23 instead of a CR24. Which monitor used the CR24. The K6100 or the G08? Not clear why its an issue as most monitors are CR23...correct?

Not trying to be dense or anything....just trying to understand.

The K6100 and G08 tubes are the same, including the CR24 neck socket, but the yokes differ, IIRC.

Scott C.
 
I just reread and re-reread the thread. And while I'm not tech....nor do I claim to be, here's some conclusions I've been under for a while now from my reading in other faq's, and posts in the past. I may be wrong, and if so, feel free to correct me.

The 19K6400's intended purpose was to be a replacement for the Electrohome G08 since it had such a spotty record. A replacement to save all of those Sega Vectors like Star Trek, and eliminator. I'm assuming this design came about at a time when games were dying and Vector games even more so. Ergo, not many of these made it to production. I've heard that those that did were cleared out very cheaply at one point. And since these were designed to replace the G08, my guess is that the input plug for these will match the input plug for the G08. Can anyone who knows the G08 verify if the plug is the same with the same pin outs.

They sure look the same, and both have 12 pins
It would be a good starting point. Naturally I must do this in due course.

But others may know already, please let us know

Dezbaz and another poster said that the transistors were doubled up. Are you talking about the bottle cap transistors. I thought this design used the same 6 bottlecaps except they had the X on the end of them(so 2N3716X and 2N3792X). They were just mounted to 3 identical heat sinks and had a fan to force cooling them. So what does the X denote....Quick recovery, heavy duty, High speed....? So does this thing use 6 bottlecaps or 12?
Don't know what the X is. Can't find any info at all. Maybe they are just closely matched pairs/quads (Sets)

Have a look the diagram to see this for yourself (Cleaned up and drawn from Chads link to the hi res manual)
http://www.amazingarcading.com.au/WG6400_Schematic_Whole-HQ_Darker.jpg

EDIT: Looks like only the of deflection sets are doubled up. Not the Power, there are 2 there still (So 10 in total)

Dezbaz mentioned unobtainable custom ICs. Where these ICs on the G08 or the K6400? Which one can't be reproduced?
The G08 has custom chips

Did this thing have the modified LV protection circuit, like the later revisions of the K6100. If not, would a modified version of the LV2000 be a good addition? Not sure if that was what Dez already suggested.
Yes, the WG6400 should have a new LV circuit, the LV circuit could prove to be a weakness otherwise
The 6400 appears to have IP protection on the interface board

So for clarification, assuming this was made to replace the G08, does the interface board take the input voltages from the Sega game, and mod them to work with basically a sped up K6100. What is it doing exactly. If it is just modifying the input signals, could the overall design (of the high voltage and deflection, and yoke) be used to make a K6100 that operates just as fast. I know the 6100 could benefit from a bottle cap cooling pack....Looking at Takeman on this one. ;)
I/Prot is one function, but it could also deal with the G08 game voltages (nice pickup)

Is this using the same tube as the K6100 with a different winding on the yoke. Dez mentioned that this uses a CR23 instead of a CR24. Which monitor used the CR24. The K6100 or the G08? Not clear why its an issue as most monitors are CR23...correct?
Different tube. Others have said the 6400 uses a 90 degree tube

Not trying to be dense or anything....just trying to understand.

I am sure others wanted to ask, so thanks for doing it :)
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom